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Post by donmattera on Aug 21, 2020 6:36:41 GMT -5
The washers are factory The weld is not factory but not unusual to see done, if the broiler lift system is working properly then don’t worry about it The thermostat is a problem, I believe there is a section in the manual that discusses repair of the Tstats As for the safety system, it is required by code in most states , as well as insurance companies. I have all of the parts to install a system should you decide to go that route I also have copies of the manual if you need one Don
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 21, 2020 10:08:20 GMT -5
I do have the service manual, and I think ill just have to go through calibration when the time comes, as nothing broke that I can see. So i wont worry too much about the thermostat right now.
Don, I suppose chuck the safety system up on the list along with those orifices! lol.
I'm thinking I may have to cut that weld to remove that screw? or maybe it doesnt need removed. I plan to strip this thing down, to clean it and paint the bones.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 21, 2020 13:02:35 GMT -5
Ok, so i'm doing some disassembly today. Goal would be to get the front panel off and then the top. Since I have absolutely no clue the best steps to take to separate all these parts, im sure ill do something wrong or out of order. Im extremely mechanically inclined and have repaired most appliances over the years, but im nervous with this stove because I dont have a good grasp of how its all assembled. Case in point, the broiler levers, the pan height lever appears to have a lock ring on the outer face, then spring loaded ramp on the inner workings. I've looked at it for 20 minutes and cant decide the best way to go about it, as in worried ill remove the wrong part first and cause rukus
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Post by Chuckie on Aug 21, 2020 13:31:37 GMT -5
Ok, so i'm doing some disassembly today. Goal would be to get the front panel off and then the top. Since I have absolutely no clue the best steps to take to separate all these parts, im sure ill do something wrong or out of order. Im extremely mechanically inclined and have repaired most appliances over the years, but im nervous with this stove because I dont have a good grasp of how its all assembled. Case in point, the broiler levers, the pan height lever appears to have a lock ring on the outer face, then spring loaded ramp on the inner workings. I've looked at it for 20 minutes and cant decide the best way to go about it, as in worried ill remove the wrong part first and cause rukus FIRST off, belated WELCOME to the site!!! As for the BROILER operation, ask dwayner, he's the BROILER KING!! Knows EVERYTHING bout their operation, and rebuilds ALL he encounters, including on my Imperial!! Good luck on the restoration, these thanks are pretty much Sherman tanks, and virtually indestructible!! CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 21, 2020 18:06:53 GMT -5
Thanks Chuckie!
I got past all my fears! so far. What looked like little split lock rings on the broiler handles was fiber washers, haha... anyways, I have the front off, the valves off, the top is removed along with the broiler box and thermowell. Some stuff looks really good and other parts dont. The oven box top panel its very rusty and kind of feels really thin compared to the non rusty parts. The rest of the stove actually feels and looks decent.
The bottom plate of the thermowell is looking kind of rough but I havent pulled it out of the well yet. The t-well pilot light is full of white power. I did notice alot of sticky green stuff on all the brass parts which looks like corrosion but its sticky, so not quite sure if its old school sealer or what lol. The rock wool in the T-well doesnt have any particular smell to it, I was worried it was going to smell like mouse piss or something nasty. I'll get some photos uploaded later, as my internet out here is still about as slow as smoke signals.
Btw, my gas valves are fairly smooth to turn by hand too.
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Post by Chuckie on Aug 21, 2020 19:06:47 GMT -5
Btw, my gas valves are fairly smooth to turn by hand too. IF you decide to grease the valves---which you SHOULD since you've got it disassembled--do NOT do more than O-N-E @ a time!!!! They HAVE to be mated back to the original component, or you're gonna have BIG problems down the road!!!! CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 21, 2020 19:09:45 GMT -5
Haha yup ive read a couple write ups about greasing them and definitely heard the warnings. Thanks for the heads up! I had planned to grease them just so its done
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 21, 2020 20:55:20 GMT -5
Here are the photos from today:
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 21, 2020 20:57:33 GMT -5
AND some more. None of these are in order because VGY is not loading the thumbnails.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 21, 2020 21:14:19 GMT -5
AND another few with some questions to those who may know... What finish is acceptable on the cast iron frames? I read that any type of paint is not.
This hook in the T-well.. is it to keep space for the vent OR is it to keep you from stuffing too large a kettle in there?
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Post by Chuckie on Aug 21, 2020 21:29:23 GMT -5
AND another few with some questions to those who may know... What finish is acceptable on the cast iron frames? I read that any type of paint is not. Wire brush the rust off, and treat them like a cast iron skillet. That's ALL you gotta do. And the hook in the well does indeed serve BOTH purposes you asked about--the Model C's & up DON'T have them-- mach12 can chime in on the BZ's, not sure... CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by mach12 on Aug 22, 2020 10:50:20 GMT -5
Whether you decided to paint the cast parts is personal choice but like Chuckie says, all you need to do is season them like a you would a cast iron skillet but if you want to paint it there's really no harm as long as you use a high temperature paint. When we assembled my BZ there was a problem with the original oven door frame (I don't remember exactly what the problem was) and Dwayner pulled a spare out of the back of his truck and we used that. He had painted it black with VHT high temperature paint and baked the paint on and it both looks nice and works well. That's my first experience with using the painted cast iron but I have to say, I like it. I've heard of people using it on burners too and I'm not so sure about that. It might be okay but I'd want to do more research on fumes and so on with anything with direct flame contact.
The BZ has the exact same Thermowell as the B and the A so has the standoff wire above the vent. Its purpose is to prevent blocking the vent with a utensil (pretty obvious). I always worry that I'm going to hang up on it and make my food spill, though so far I haven't had a problem. With a pot it's not an issue but like yesterday I made scalloped potatoes in the well (those ones you buy in a box - it was a cheating day lol). I use a glass 1.5 quart casserole and set it, uncovered, on my Thermobaker (fits perfect) then put it in the well. It'd be easy to hit that wire and make the thing tilt and spill the liquid so it's something you just have to keep in mind.
Edit - About the time I hit the button to post the above info I thought "Oh wait, my broiler burner is also painted with VHT", so there goes the thing about painting burners. I think because Dwayner bakes the parts he paints that fumes aren't a problem but I also fired up the stove and ran it in the shop before moving it to the house, so any fume issues were gone before we started using it in the house.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 22, 2020 13:05:14 GMT -5
Excellent info! So i've read alot of the washing soda method of cleaning the burners... BUT my burners have most of their enamel on them yet, so I dont want to ruin it by etching it in soda bath. Would ultra sonic cleaning in vinegar- kerosene- CLR, be something worth while?
Another question: Is it a big pain to pull the oven and service closet doors apart, mainly curious about the hassle of the insulation? Is rockwool itchy and dangerous to breath like other fiberglass?
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 22, 2020 18:13:02 GMT -5
Well I did some more tear down and cleaning. I found that some ammonia based surface cleaner I have, cuts that old grease very well. I have planned on not replacing any of the rockwool and leaving those areas alone....... BUT I found that the little cast iron piece on the bottom of the oven door that covers where you would light the pilot light, when the door is close, was very rusty. I decided to take the door apart. I did save the insulation and bagged it up so IF need be I can reuse it. I would appreciate some ideas/input about that, should I buy new rock wool? redo all of it?
Also, the 4 nuts holding the front panel of the oven door to the cast iron frame, were very loose. Is it supposed to be like that and it relies on the pressure of the insulation to keep it tight? at any rate, here are some photos. (I needed a small confidence booster so I cleaned a gas line lol)
NOTICE how the corner front panel nut wasnt even on!
What should I do about this. Roll with it?
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Post by mach12 on Aug 22, 2020 18:21:20 GMT -5
Would ultra sonic cleaning in vinegar- kerosene- CLR, be something worth while? Another question: Is it a big pain to pull the oven and service closet doors apart, mainly curious about the hassle of the insulation? Is rockwool itchy and dangerous to breath like other fiberglass? Funny you should ask about the ultrasonic cleaning. I decided to experiment with that awhile back and had a burner on an A series that was so gummed up with years of grease that I'm sure it wouldn't even have lit. My wife's jewelry cleaning solution about knocks my socks off with the ammonia smell so I thought I'd give that a try and bought some at the dollar store (I'm a big spender) and ran a couple of cycles in pure ammonia. I used a banged up ultrasonic cleaner that I bought in a thrift store that had a faded orange Harbor Freight sticker still on it and it worked great (did I mention that I'm a big spender?) and the crud that came out of that burner on the first run was pretty amazing. On the second run it just had a little bit of residue. Since I just had the one that was boogered up like that I wasn't able to do a comparison with any other methods but the ultrasonic cleaner worked well and it was fast. I rinsed it, ran it through the dishwasher, and dried it in the oven. I'd like to try some other stuff to see how it works and removing rust but haven't tried anything else yet.
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Post by mach12 on Aug 22, 2020 18:35:32 GMT -5
I reuse the rock wool except for the hard, black chunks around the edges from baked in grease.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 22, 2020 19:58:57 GMT -5
I saw the ultrasonic cleaner at harbor freight, seemed kinda small. BUT if its big enough for a burner that would be good. I was looking at the 3L and or a 10L unit on ebayazon. My burners are actually in pretty darn good shape, I cleaned with ammonia and dawn dish soap. Still have a ash klinkers on them but i can scrape them off fairly easy.
The oven door latch, spring loaded part. To take that one apart to I need to pull the pin out of the latch rod, or hammer it in untill the rod can come out with the spring? Mine is very crunchy sounding.
I have a couple small car battery chargers, and was thinking of setting up an electrolysis tank for some of the more complex parts. I've been thinking alot about what I want to do with the plated parts. Have read several threads that have mentioned the chrome plating place in Salt Lake City. OR if I should just clean the parts up best I can and roll with it. Should I be posting my restoration in the rangers forum as well?
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Post by vaporvac on Aug 22, 2020 22:09:02 GMT -5
Is that hole on the oven door? There should be a little piece that goes over it. Let me see if I can get a picture. I polished most of my chrome bits with Maas and they look great. Those that were in poor shape were re-lated locally. They only do double-plating, but it was fine for small bits. I also just re-used the rock wook in the oven door. I didn't mess the it in the oven or Twell. You're doing a great job.
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 22, 2020 23:01:43 GMT -5
Dang, you are hauling on your restoration and getting lots of good advice from everyone here. I feel so left out that I missed all this.
-do NOT drive that pin deeper into the spring loaded shaft on the oven latch. There is no room on the other side for it to move. First, take a couple small blocks of wood and drill a big hole in the center of each one maybe 1/4” deep, that’s all. Now use those blocks to protect the enamel/chrome on each end of your latch while you press the pin down in a bench vise. You might also want to put some cloth between the block of wood and the latch end. When that pin is in the middle of the notch you can spray PB Blaster on it and try pulling it out with pliers or a wire cutter. If that doesn’t work (only works 25% of the time), take a cutting wheel on a Dremel motor and cut it off even with the shaft. Now the shaft should just pop out. That pin is not tapered so you should be able to use a punch to knock it thru. Heating the shaft with a torch will help too if it’s really stuck, but that will discolor the chrome plating on that shaft.
-those 4 nuts holding the outer oven door panel should have been snug but not really tight. Someone at the factory may have had too much beer on their lunch break and didn’t do it right. 😃. Don Mattera gave me some advice years ago. When putting the outer door panel on you should just barely snug up those 4 nuts, not tight, and DON’T insulate the inner door yet. Once you’ve gotten your stove back together and the main front panel where you like it...step back and check the gap around the door. If your door needs to move up/down or left/right to get a good look and even gap, you still have access to those nuts to loosen them and play with the door. Once you like the position, snug the 4 nuts down but NOT too tight. You could suck up that corner too far and chip the outer enamel....right Chuckie? Now you can finish insulating the oven door and put the inner panel back on.
-I think I mentioned this before, I have lots of clean but used rockwool if you need a few pounds. I can mail it to you for just shipping cost.
-that hole where the “Light Here” plate was is normal. Kind of a bad design flaw by Chambers. Do you still have that plate? Does the plate cover the hole to where you don’t see it? That thin bracket it’s bolted too is junk. I just make a new bracket out of 1/8” alum to secure it back from inside the panel.
-others here should chime in on this. Using electrolysis on black steel or cast iron is OK but never put chromed or electro-plated pieces in there. You will break down the chrome and produce some really bad byproducts, some that cause cancer! Then you will need to properly dispose of the bath water if your a concerned citizen, no dumping on the ground. Watch the movie ‘Erin Brockovitch’....same type of chemicals are in your bath water that the chemical company was dumping into the groundwater causing everyone to get sick. I use electrolysis only on the oven burner, burner cradles, and the broiler burner (but not the back part where the electroplating is on the shaft).
-if your top burners are still in good shape with lots of nice enamel left on them then I’d advise NOT doing the boiling in Washing Soda. Washing Soda will definitely clean them out well but it will dull the shine on the enamel. After the ultrasonic bath you can carefully brush off the rusty areas with a Dremel motor and wire wheel and then season the whole burner like a skillet. Be sure to bake out any moisture though before you add the lard or mineral oil.
-Steve, I remember your door frame issues. I brought you a restored stove body with the oven insulation and cast iron door frame intact, frame was painted with VHT. But, even though the door had a good deal around it when I loaded it in TX, we found out that one side had a small gap. So, we removed the bolts, bent the metal lip around the door and replaced it with one of your door frames. Fun times! 😡
I think both seasoning the door frame or painting it with VHT 2000° paint are good ways to go. If you paint it black and rust returns later in, Stove Polish can be used to touch it up. If it’s seasoned and it starts to rust, slap on some more oil or lard and turn on the oven! You might want to light a cigarette though to hid all the smoke in the house from the seasoning oil...LOL. Just crack the window for an hour. 👍
I paint the broiler burner and oven burner but others here like Chuckie have seasoned theirs and they look great. NOTE...follow the baking instructions on the can of VHT paint if you go that route, it’s a 3 step process and will bake it onto the metal.
Guess I’ve rambled on enough, too much caffeine I guess. 🤪
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Post by mach12 on Aug 23, 2020 0:11:41 GMT -5
I saw the ultrasonic cleaner at harbor freight, seemed kinda small. BUT if its big enough for a burner that would be good. I was looking at the 3L and or a 10L unit on ebayazon. My burners are actually in pretty darn good shape, I cleaned with ammonia and dawn dish soap. Still have a ash klinkers on them but i can scrape them off fairly easy.
The oven door latch, spring loaded part. To take that one apart to I need to pull the pin out of the latch rod, or hammer it in untill the rod can come out with the spring? Mine is very crunchy sounding.
I have a couple small car battery chargers, and was thinking of setting up an electrolysis tank for some of the more complex parts. I've been thinking alot about what I want to do with the plated parts. Have read several threads that have mentioned the chrome plating place in Salt Lake City. OR if I should just clean the parts up best I can and roll with it. Should I be posting my restoration in the rangers forum as well? The HFT ultrasonic cleaners I see there now are definitely smaller by quite a bit. I saw one similar to mine at a sporting goods place in with the reloading equipment. I pull the pin when I disassemble the latch. They always come out fine though I generally soak them with a couple of drops of penetrate so that it's lubed a bit as it moves. I set up one of those Rubbermaid trash cans for electrolysis I took one of those cheap steel fence posts and formed a circle the size of the trash can at the top and then I tack welded some old worn out lawnmower blades to it. I use a manual battery charger but a friend who only has an automatic charger connected the anode and cathode to a battery and then the charger to the battery and it works great, so that's an option. Electrolysis really works nice, just be sure to avoid putting chrome or stainless in it. There's a good writeup at the Chevy stovebolt website at www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolysis.pdf. You can clean the chrome with oxalic acid. I bought mine at Ace hardware, where it's sold as wood bleach. Works really nice. There's a video at the following link of a guy cleaning some bicycle parts with it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9rkHvOEP3U . I don't know how many people here don't follow both sites anymore so posting just here or both is up to you. For a long time it seemed that there was more technical discussion on the Rangers site and more about stove use and cooking here but I think it's pretty equal now. A lot of us will post on both when we do recipes just to be sure we're sharing the wealth and if we have a question or are looking for something we'll post on both but I'd think your rebuild thread would be hard to manage doing it on both sites. Those are just my thoughts though and I may well be missing something so hopefully others will chime in.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 23, 2020 0:14:55 GMT -5
Hexavalent chromium... Not supposed to do in home electrolysis on stainless steel or chromed parts is what I've always read.
My intent would be the the two big burners and various parts. But it was just a thought. I have the broiler burner in a tub of vinegar. Probably just going to wire wheel the oven burner. It's really in decent shape.
Good shout out about the oven door alignment AFTER getting it back together. That's gold there!!.
I do have the light here cover, and yes it covers the rust hole. I'll make a new bracket that loads against it when tight, no big deal.
Good to know I can get some rock wool if I need it, I thank you for that offer!
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 23, 2020 0:54:51 GMT -5
Eh good point, might be tough to manage both sites. Just wasn't sure.
I'll try to get that pin pulled tomorrow. I tried pulling it a little earlier and didn't budge. So I didn't want to screw it up.
I havent really looked yet but how do the oven door springs and rods come apart. I see they go through channels in the stove walls it appears.
Also, not sure if I should take the entire broiler box mechanisms apart or clean it assembled. Thoughts?
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Post by pooka on Aug 23, 2020 2:32:37 GMT -5
I'll give you a quick primmer on the tale of two sites. The Rangers was the original Chambers site. The creator & webmaster liked to keep the posts mostly about the stoves & anything connected, although he did tolerate some coffee klutch talk. At some point before I joined, there apparently was some political discussions that got heated I out of hand. People got banned. People quit. It was a fiasco. Some of the exiled members started this commune as a safe harbor of sorts. It's a place where we're all equal. But here we feel free to speak our peace, but do our best to respect one another.
You'll notice under your name it says "Comrade". We have no rank here. On the Rangers site, you start out as a "Dishwasher", & move up in rank the more posts you make. It's a kitchen hierarchy. We don't really pay attention to it. On the Rangers site the webmaster used to rule with a heavy hand. Sometimes changing a post if something ran afoul of his rules. He did not allow any mention of this site, or it's members. We were the enemy out to destroy him. I know all this sounds childish, but there you go. I have personally received a nasty warning message from the webmaster. That was yesterday. Since I joined, I've counseled a reconciliation to no avail. I have a different username over there. Here, I am myself. Over there I am my stove. A model 74. I started double posting if I thought it was something perhaps technical about the stoves, or info I wanted to equally share amongst all Chambers enthusiasts. Others have followed my lead. It's no fall of the Berlin Wall, but it's a start.
Anyway, The Rangers webmaster has since had some personal tragedies. I'll leave it at that. I believe his demeanor has softened in recent years. He is a minister, so maybe he's found some peace to his troubled mind. With all that said, I'd say just follow along as you are here. You can come up with your own guideline of what you want to post where. If you've read any of my posts here, you'll notice I can get a bit spirited, & opinionated, but not belligerent. I try not to be offensive, but I do have strong opinions. I follow a softer tone on the other site.
My namesake here is a Celtic hobgoblin with a checkered character. He's a shapeshifter who can help you, or terrorize you, depending on how he is treated. With respect or maligned. I pulled it from the 1950 movie, Harvey, starring Jimmy Stewart. In it, Harvey, the pooka is a six foot, three & a half inch white rabbit. Also, he's invisible to everyone except Jimmy Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd. I love this movie. It's based on a play, & has some great dialog.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 23, 2020 10:01:20 GMT -5
Wow, now that's an education! Thank you for taking the time to explain this!
I've been on the forums of various topics for well over 15 years. Another forum where one of my long build threads resides was also started after an exile of members from an iron rule. Power eventually seems to corrupt people, at any scale. I'm very thankful for the warm welcome and easy flowing information!
Maybe my wife and I will check that movie out today.
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 23, 2020 10:38:29 GMT -5
Seen clips of the movie but haven’t watched it yet.
Glad you posted the story of why the forums split Pooka. I myself started on the Rangers site years ago and spent more time posting there to be honest, hope to change that. The Webmaster on the Rangers site is a good guy but sometimes used the site as a go fund me, not cool in my books. He’s on the Facebook Chambers site as well and must have a notification on his phone when the word “manual” pops up in a post....he replies with lightening speed to say “I have copyright manuals for sale”. NOTE....there are free online copies of the original manuals and cookbooks if you need them, just message me.
He’s also notorious about trying to make people feel bad if they are selling a Chambers....why? Other than those two topics he’s not much for posting helpful info, other than “How to properly move a Chambers”. As you can tell, Pooka is more politically correct when discussing him than I am. To each his own I say, just don’t force your beliefs on someone else and always keep an open mind about everything.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 23, 2020 12:40:55 GMT -5
Mach12 emailed some manuals, parts list, and idle hour cookbook over to me last week. Do you have other literature you think I should read?
I want to get rolling on more clean up, but need to do some housework today, so maybe later I can get more progress photos posted.
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 23, 2020 13:47:00 GMT -5
Nope. If you contacted Mach12 then he likely already sent you everything available. I have info on the pilot safety install if he hasn’t sent that to you.
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Post by pooka on Aug 23, 2020 14:49:23 GMT -5
I'm the mad Chambers hermit monk evangelizing the Chambers good news from my cave. I do my best not to be judgmental of others. We all have our own story. I'm not going to second guess anyone's else's motives. Todd is the one who got this ball rolling in starting the original site. He's been a bit overzealous in the past, but I'm not going to heap insults on him for poor personal skills. He's a lost soul, tormented in his own mind. I think his motives are pure, but his zeal has lead him astray.
I try to be the voice of reason in a sea of conflict. No one is my opponent, but rather a friend I haven't made yet. I'm a passive sort who sees no gain in fighting. I may debate you, but I'll do my best to never throw a punch. If you have to strike me, you've already lost in my eyes. I preach reason & good sense. All conflicts are solvable if the parties are willing. Too many lust for the conflict. Like two bull elephant in must. Mad with frenzy to but heads. Just mad raw animal rage that cannot be allayed. If we can meet on equal ground & give equally, any social issue is reconcilable. Hate & prejudice are a heavy load to carry, but some are unwilling to lay the burden down.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 23, 2020 16:33:13 GMT -5
Thats a good outlook pooka!
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Post by karitx on Aug 24, 2020 16:47:13 GMT -5
voodoochikin04 , welcome to the world of Chambers obsession! Also, I like your fuzzy supervisors. The orange one looks especially helpful.
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