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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 15, 2020 19:32:10 GMT -5
Hello people!
I just registered and wanted to share my chambers purchase and plans. Only took a few days of searching craigslist to find it but I think its a decent unit.
The seller purchased it 3 years prior from an estate sale where they had just unhooked it from the natural gas line for the sale. It sat in the sellers garage for 3 years (presumably where it picked up a little surface rust). The tag inside is stamped 12-B but searching line I find nothing about 12B, but then again i'm new to chambers stoves.
The lights need new wiring, the Twell lid handle is broken, and does not come with any of the pots of accessories unfortunately. Also there are two half dollar sized chips in the porcelain of the left side backsplash. That being said I feel like its in decent shape.
And here it is all loaded up. I did my best to follow instructions I've read either on this forum or another about prepping it for moving. It rode 350miles back home without issues.
Id like to eventually do a full restoration, but it looks fairly good now that I kind of want to do basic maintenance on it and start using it. We will be needing to run propane through this unit, im not sure if thats an oriface change or if this unit has the adjustable orifaces.
Thoughts?
Thanks!!
Matt
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Post by mach12 on Aug 15, 2020 21:36:23 GMT -5
Welcome! That's a beautiful stove! To change over to propane you need to change the orifice caps. The caps for natural gas are adjustable but only for adjusting flame height when you're on natural gas though I've heard some people have been able to get a workable flame by adjusting it down and then fine tuning back and forth as they adjust other burners. The universal mixers that can be set for either natural gas or propane didn't come out until the 50's. On the B's you're also supposed to raise the burners and switch to shallow drip pans but most people don't worry about it and say it works fine. If you can find someone who has a set of shallow drip pans for a B (or someone who's parting out a BZ since they have the correct part number shallow pans) it wouldn't hurt.
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Post by vaporvac on Aug 15, 2020 22:22:07 GMT -5
You will have to get new caps to use propane and I would suggest re-greasing the valves at a minimum. You have a 15b, also known as the Silverlite. I'm betting yours came as a 12B which is the same as the 11B ie. no-back with pull-down cover, but with the chrome top. It's the high-back with lights that makes it a 14b or 15b. The 11b and 14b have the black porcelain top. The original owners probably added the high-back. Good find. You will love cooking on it. It doesn't really matter about the pots as you can use anything that will fit. I have a 14B with a another plus a 15b in my garage! I think the 15b finally has a new home.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 15, 2020 23:37:53 GMT -5
Awesome info!! I've been reading for a week now and so far this is the first ive read about needing to raise the burners for propane. The stove is still loaded in the tahoe, waiting for some help to arrive, so I have not been able to really scope things out other than presale inspection I did. Since I'm a chambers noob and haven't found the info on my own, where could I go about getting the proper orifice caps?
On a side note, I'm making a deal on a craigslist ad for the large single kettle and a trio set. The guy also has the drip pans from his C model stove with the wagon wheel grates and the pilot vent in the center. Would those happen to be the correct drip pans?
As for my stove the seller was asking $675 and we came to a deal at $550. I based that being a decent price on what other people were asking for theirs, in similar conditions and the fact that this stove was in really nice shape with very minimal pitting in some spots on the chrome top.
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 16, 2020 8:17:36 GMT -5
First thing, Welcome! You’ve come to the right place for help and questions. There are some pretty sharp people here and lots of people who’ve restored their own stove. What part of the country are you in?
Based on what I see and what you’ve said about it being used 3 years ago, I’d say the price you paid is spot on. Main thing besides the condition of the stove is if the oven thermostat still works. If not, that will run you and extra $225-$350 depending on if you can get the thermostat rebuild done at the wholesale price or not. RepCo in Ft Worth does them and has a webpage.
Like Vaporvac said, I’d definitely grease the gas valves. There is likely wear on the control assembly between the valve handles and gas valves on the pipe header but that will take a partial dismantle to pull that unit off and repair it.
Those model C drip pans and grates do NOT work on the B or BZ models unless you do some modifications. And even then they may spin and not stay in place like the original. I think your your pans will be fine whether you use LP or NG.
Some of the B stoves already have an adjustable orifice cap, though the “Universal” caps came out later on the C models like Mach12 said. I actually prefer them over the Universal ones. Remove one of your top burner orifice caps and look for a sharp point the shape of a pencil head. If you have the point then they are adjustable between NG to LP. If that point is not there, then you will need to find orifice caps drilled for LP based on the BTU output for the different burners.
Keep us updated on your progress. Oh, those chips are minor. Find you some appliance touchup paint and put on a few coats. Over time it may start to discolor a bit from the heat but just slap on a fresh coat of paint....no biggy.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 16, 2020 10:24:18 GMT -5
Thank you for the information!! I'm located about 2 hours northwest of Omaha, NE. When we unload the stove today Ill check out the orifice caps and see what Im working with. I wont waste my time with those C pans and grates then, the owner is giving the stove away, desperate for someone to come haul it off but they are in New Jersey, waaaaaay too far. I wasnt too concerned about the chips as it will go nicely with my 1950's Youngstown Kitchens white porcelain double sink and countertop which has a few chips as well. It's going to look beautiful together.
side note: I'm ok spending a little cash to get this stove up and going properly. I had been looking at a absolute mint condition currently used red 15B that was the most beautiful thing I had seen when it comes to stoves. It was for sale in boulder, CO on CL for $3K and I went to make an offer but it had just sold for asking price. Now that being said I like the fact I have not had to spend anywhere near that haha, but I will be willing to get this stove up to its former glory!!
I've always been a big proponent that vintage items were generally built to last. I have several older woodworking tools and shop tools like a 1940's atlas clausing drill press than stands 6ft tall and weighs 400lbs, awaiting restore. So when I was looking for a new gas range in the kitchen I was stuck on NEEDING a viking or a wolf or bluestar, thinking I wanted a commercial style range. After residing to the fact that I would have to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000 to get into a new bluestar... I stepped back and thought what am I doing.. They all look so plain and cold (Like my kenmore stainless fridge ha)... I started reading about vintage stoves and just found myself excited reading about all the features of a chambers, before ever seeing one. AND when I first laid eyes on a chambers I was in love!!
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Post by nana on Aug 16, 2020 10:38:20 GMT -5
... AND when I first laid eyes on a chambers I was in love!! Voodoochickin, you have found your tribe here! Welcome to a whole new world of cooking!
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 16, 2020 10:45:53 GMT -5
The warm welcome is much appreciated!!
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Post by mach12 on Aug 16, 2020 11:34:21 GMT -5
Cool. I married a Nebraska girl (Elmwood, East of Lincoln) and get there a lot. We were planning to come this summer for a village event but Covid-19 put the skids to that when they had to call it off.
If you want a red stove you can get your panels refinished at Independence Porcelain Enamel, Independence, MO - not too bad of a drive in your case. I got a set of panels from a stove being parted, had IPE refinish them, and then just had to swap them out. Something to think about anyway.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 16, 2020 11:40:17 GMT -5
I've learned of IPE from reading on here. I LOVE the white now that I have it. It matches our sink perfectly. I'll get a picture of that when dishes are done later haha.
I live way out in the sticks, one of two houses on this 3 mile stretch of road. Very peaceful out here. About 3hrs from Lincoln.
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Post by mach12 on Aug 16, 2020 12:26:35 GMT -5
The white certainly is nice and is probably the easiest to decorate around. I bought a blue 90C that I was originally going to install but then my wife saw a picture of a red B or BZ and that took care of that lol. The blue 90C will be living with my nephew and his wife in Iowa once we can safely travel again (I recently had neurosurgery to remove a tumor so, according to the docs, am considered very high risk for the virus). I have a white BZ waiting for me to restore as a surprise for our son but he bought a new electric range so that's now on the back burner, so to speak.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 16, 2020 12:41:14 GMT -5
I personally hate cooking on electric. Been doing it for a few years and had enough. Our whole house is electric, so we have to get a gas line put in underground and into the house. A client of mine runs an HVAC business and they quoted me cheap enough that I have no desire to do it myself. We have a 500 gallon mobile tank that we use to supply our 1965 Allis Chalmers D17 LPG tractor. But that only takes maybe one refill per season so the plan is to park the tank by the house within code distance and run the new stove from that.
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Post by mach12 on Aug 16, 2020 23:11:32 GMT -5
We're out in the county far enough that there'll never be another option so went with propane too. I'm a licensed and certified universal HVAC technician and in our state that covers gas plumbing as well so I had planned to do my own but I was having a heck of a time with dizziness when working under the house or under a car. It turned out to be a tumor so they put me on observation to see what the tumor was doing and I hired a plumber to do the job. I had the tumor removed 3 months ago so am back to doing that stuff myself, though it's a long recovery to get all the way back up to speed. My place had been plumbed when it was built in 1971 for gas to the fireplaces for gas logs but I ripped that out and installed 3/4" CSST. I'm running two 100 lb. propane tanks right now and refill them about every 4 months and we run the heck out of our stove. We're going to install a regular tank that's big enough for a once a year fill so I can fill it in the summer when the prices are down. In the meantime I just take the tanks to the feed store when they get low and have them filled. Your friend probably has all the charts and so on that I do but if he needs any data let me know.
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Post by pooka on Aug 17, 2020 2:59:44 GMT -5
So when I was looking for a new gas range in the kitchen I was stuck on NEEDING a viking or a wolf or bluestar, thinking I wanted a commercial style range. After residing to the fact that I would have to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000 to get into a new bluestar... I stepped back and thought what am I doing. The funny thing is, the creator of the Viking ranges did so because his wife wanted a stove like her moms, a Chambers, for a new house they were building, but they weren't making them any more. He designed a stove & approached commercial stove companies to build it, but they were horrified at the idea. He finally found a company in California to make them, thus starting the trend for commercial STYLED stoves for the home. That was before the trend of redoing old stove took off some years later. For the lack of a Chambers, the world was cursed with commercial STYLED stainless steel stoves for the home.
Really, many old stoves are built as rugged as commercial stoves. The systems on old stoves are simpler & more reliable than all the modern electronics in new ranges. Some time ago, a member wrote about a motherboard going bad on their previous stove. To me, there no reason in the world a stove should have or need a motherboard. After far too short a time, any modern stove becomes cheaper to replace than fix, especially when you can't even get the parts anymore, because they stopped making them. There's not really much to go wrong with many vintage stoves, but Chambers was always a cut above the rest. They're built like a tank, & have features no other can come close to matching. With care & a little servicing, a Chambers can last a lifetime or two. If anything should go awry, their simple, but ingenious design make them relatively easy to work on. As I've crowed before about my stove. New in 1935, & still no repairs needed. These are great for a rural setting. All you need it fuel & a match. Cooking With The Gas Turned Off can be a revaluation. Once you get your sea legs under you in using your stoves features, you'll never want to be without it. I've compared them to having a cool vintage car in your kitchen, but you can't always drive a Deuce Coupe every day, but you can drive a Chambers morning, noon & night. And it's a workhorse that can't be out done. And they look good to boot. I know a Chambers or any old stove are not for everyone. Some need that shinny new thing with a warranty. For a select few who appreciate such things, old stuff that's built to last will never go out of style. Most of my best stuff is far older than me, & will have a life after me.
A final note. We've seen some old receipts for Chambers from the 50s, & when you adjust for inflation, they sold for between three & four thousand of today's dollars.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 17, 2020 3:35:18 GMT -5
Wow that is some interesting information about the viking Genesis. Kind of cool considering missing out on a $300 obo viking series 3 range locally really jumpstarted my search for a gas range again and led me down this path! But I definitely agree with all your points especially about too many electronics in modern kitchen equipment.
Mach12 I get vertigo pretty bad anymore if I'm on my back under a car or bending over repeatedly.... Kinda making me nervous.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 17, 2020 13:42:21 GMT -5
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 17, 2020 14:15:43 GMT -5
Here it is... Looks a little worse for wear than when I was inspecting it at the buyers house. Sorry these photos are huge. I hope they work.
OK so this is the oven bottom and looking at the left side the wall of the oven is pushed over quite a bit. Is this a problem?
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Post by mach12 on Aug 17, 2020 14:21:23 GMT -5
Mach12 I get vertigo pretty bad anymore if I'm on my back under a car or bending over repeatedly.... Kinda making me nervous. It's not statistically likely that your vertigo is what caused mine but sooner is better when it comes to checking it out. The most common issue by far that causes that kind of vertigo is Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV) and it's corrected by simple exercises that reposition the crystals in your ears. You can find the exercises online and see whether they fix it and more than likely they will. I probably went 15 years thinking it was BPPV since that's what the initial diagnosis was. When the exercises didn't work they said to just keep doing them but knowing what I know now I should have insisted on a referral to an ENT doctor. My condition was a benign tumor on my left auditory nerve, a condition that was initially referred to as an acoustic neuroma. That term is still commonly seen but the proper term, and what's used in the medical community, is vestibular schwannoma. It's pretty rare and, unless it's let go too long and starts pressing on the brain stem, is rarely fatal but often results in hearing loss on the affected side and a level of vertigo while healing (anywhere from 3 to 12 months), facial weakness and so on. Check with your doctor or give the exercises a try and you'll probably get rid of the vertigo pretty easily.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 17, 2020 14:23:45 GMT -5
wow thats pretty crazy, thanks for the info!
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 17, 2020 22:14:17 GMT -5
Judging by all your great pictures I’d say that stove is in pretty darn good shape. Most of my stoves have a lot more rust when I take them apart and yours look much better. The oven racks and side rails still have lots of chrome left too. It looks like a lot of rust on the bottom of the broiler box but that may just be rusty grease. The well can looks good too.
That gap between the left oven wall and floor is not normal but not hurting anything. You can fix that by removing the oven top panel to expose the insulation and then use a long stick to push the insulation down against that wall. Normally there IS a gap like that below the hole where the oven burner goes thru the wall.
I think you have a pretty good stove there. Just needs lots of elbow grease to make it shine.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 17, 2020 22:53:08 GMT -5
Thats a confidence booster dwayner! The broiler box is all grease as far as I can tell. The flash on the camera kind of makes things look different. I'm glad to hear that this stove appears to be in good shape. I was worried I may have bought a lemon haha. I'm really considering picking up the LP chambers that is local to me. Of course it had to come up for sale AFTER I bought mine and got it home
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 19, 2020 23:50:53 GMT -5
Do all you guys have a the safety valve with pilot and thermocouple installed? Been wondering If I should do this.
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 20, 2020 8:10:12 GMT -5
It’s really a personal preference I’d say. I don’t have one and prefer to light the oven each time as Chambers designed. Others here love them and they help to keep the oven preheated to about 185°(?).
I have a couple of diagrams on how to install them if you want me to make copies for you. Warning...they ain’t cheap. I think you will spend well over $300.00 for the valve, tubing, thermocouple and fittings by the time it said and done. One of the restoration places may have the whole kit but will cost more.
One thing to consider too is that there needs to be a little air coming into the oven to keep oxygen to the standing pilot. You can put something the size of a matchstick (metal) to keep the bottom baffle open or adjust the rod for the back baffle so there’s always a gap for air. I would think doing the back baffle that way would interfere with CWTGO but Nana here had that done to hers and she said the oven works fine.
I recently found out that Chambers had a standing pilot flame in the model D stoves that was fed directly by the header, same as in the well. It was there to ignite a 2nd pilot to heat the thermocouple once the oven gas was turned on...to help extend the life of the thermocouple? I guess you could skip the safety valve and do the same so if anyone turns on the oven gas and forgets, the pilot will ignite the burner. I’d definitely make sure the pilot was still lit though before turning on the oven gas. Now that setup may not be OSHA approved but Chambers did it and even stated that the escaping gas from an extinguished pilot was minimal and approved safe by the Amer Gas Assoc back in the 60’s.
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 20, 2020 8:24:57 GMT -5
I noticed in your pictures that your well lid looks nice but is missing the handle. I think I have an extra handle if you want it. Not sure how you would attach it without removing the alum top from the enameled pan though....that’s a pain!
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Post by mach12 on Aug 20, 2020 11:38:51 GMT -5
I installed the safety system for a few reasons, one being that my wife wasn't at all comfortable with it having to be lit each time the oven was used, the possibility that the flame could go out and the oven filled with unburned gas, and the fact that my homeowner's insurance would not cover any stove related issues if the stove didn't meet code and code requires one be installed and functional on a new install. If the stove was already there when the code went into effect then it's grandfathered but my stove was a new install so I installed one to bring it to code. It is using gas all the time but the oven is so well insulated that it stays warm and my preheat time is reduced, so I probably make up for some of my fuel use running the pilot. I've also never seen any condensation in my oven and suspect that's related to the pilot burning. That might be different in other climates with high humidity though.
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 20, 2020 12:19:05 GMT -5
Dwayner- I have the handle and had thought about using large rivets but I ended up getting another lid for $10... that should be arriving tomorrow, along with a single kettle and the trio kettle.
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Post by dwayner2 on Aug 20, 2020 17:56:29 GMT -5
That’s a good point I never thought of Steve, condensation causing rust in the oven. I think even the Chambers Co recommended you crack the oven door during preheat and after cooking to eliminate moisture inside the oven. So, another good reason to have a standing pilot I guess.
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Post by Chuckie on Aug 20, 2020 19:17:39 GMT -5
I installed the safety system for a few reasons, one being that my wife wasn't at all comfortable with it having to be lit each time the oven was used, the possibility that the flame could go out and the oven filled with unburned gas, and the fact that my homeowner's insurance would not cover any stove related issues if the stove didn't meet code and code requires one be installed and functional on a new install. If the stove was already there when the code went into effect then it's grandfathered but my stove was a new install so I installed one to bring it to code. It is using gas all the time but the oven is so well insulated that it stays warm and my preheat time is reduced, so I probably make up for some of my fuel use running the pilot. I've also never seen any condensation in my oven and suspect that's related to the pilot burning. That might be different in other climates with high humidity though. We N-E-V-E-R have condensation in the oven, for the same reason. Our oven stays around 120-140 IF memory serves me. And as I stated on another post, my OCD nephew said his gas bill w/ALL pilots on full time went up <than $5 a month I believe. We are forever cutting herbs in our garden, just putting them on a cookie tray to dry in oven, then jarring them only a coupla hours later. Also thaws meat faster (i.e. minute steaks or thin chops for breakfast), and Monkey prefers her Irish Oats better outta the OVEN than the thermowell. It also does well to keep something warm already cooked whilst you're waiting for another dish to finish. I'm third generation of HVAC peeps, and my Da/Grandad would be APPALLED if I had an oven WITHOUT a safety system!! Although the track record out here is GOOD for those W/O safeties, it ONLY takes O-N-C-E for a calamity... Or as dwayner (the NON-pilot user) always quips, " JUST sayin'..." CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by voodoochikin04 on Aug 20, 2020 20:24:43 GMT -5
OK guys I think I may have screwed up less than 10 minutes in... hind sight is very clear always. I took the burner handles off the front by loosening the set screws and the gummed up ones I just gave a twist and off they came no problem... Then to the oven dial, I'm sure some of you know where this is going. Loosed the set screw, pull... and nothing but spring action. Ok no big deal ill twist till it stops and then twist some more to loosen the gunk. What a dummy. Bent the stop leg on the back of the dial, not realizing the design and then unscrewed the damn shaft. Not knowing how these thermostats physically operate I didn't think that the shaft would unscrew like that. So now I have no idea if that can damage the thermostat in some fashion, and Im assuming theres got to be some starting point here to putting the dial back on? Picture of that mess: Then, it appears someone has welded this section and onto that screw. This doesnt feel like a factory thing? lol.... Finally, both sides of the oven box have these fender washers for the screws that hold the rack side holders in place. Is that factory? Have not see fender washers anywhere else.
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Post by vaporvac on Aug 20, 2020 23:33:28 GMT -5
Voodoo, sorry about that. Do you have the Owner's/Service Manual?
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