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Post by evangeline on Dec 8, 2015 8:14:49 GMT -5
Hi. This is a decision I've been putting off and now I can't any longer. Dugbug is finishing my stove and contractor is installing the ventahood in early January. The Chambers will be centered on the chimney breast, with two narrow in-fill cabinets on either side. So there will be a seam between the existing (um, unlovely?) pale mauve formica and the new countertop material. Photo of existing attached. rrr. Sideways. (the seam will be on the right side, just off the pic. The left side will be new material. Anyone have any experience with IKEA chopping block countertop? Since the left side is adjacent to the broiler, would we be better off with an open shelf because of the heat factor? (Pretty sure the latter question has a thread of it's own!) Thanks!
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Post by vaporvac on Dec 8, 2015 13:37:26 GMT -5
Lucky you. I bet you're counting the days!Is this "new" material for the left side only? If that's the case, I'd probably get a heat-proof surface for pot landing just in case all the stove's top surface is in use. I have granite tiles next to mine and then dusty rose (or is it pink?) formica joining it. I don't like the clatter of many hard surfaces, but it's nice not to worry about damage. And the you wouln't need to worry about the broiler heat. Open shelves on top next to the hood might look nice too. Which VAH is this? My PICC has the Lumber liquidator Cherry countertop... it's beautiful, but one must take care. He left a bottle of something on it and now it has that imprint. He seasoned his as well. If you're a careful person, use trivets or like the aged look that might be pretty. His IS gorgeous. Maybe I'll dig up a pic later.
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Post by evangeline on Dec 8, 2015 21:00:32 GMT -5
Vv, good thoughts. Going to be 9" on both sides. I thought about granite but then I wondered, would it make my formica look shabby? Are your tiles grouted? Dusty Rose sounds better than pale mauve. I wonder if that engineered quartz or corian is heat resistant. Surely it is? There will be room for 7" shelves on either side of the hood. Contractor's going to install the hood first, then we'll decide about the shelves. Since he's going through a 1903 chimney breast, he wanted some wiggle room if he hits an Unidentified Object. We have a large-ish kitchen (not grand, but roomy) with high ceilings so I went for the CXH18- 42" VAH. It's BIG! Hope it doesn't look ridiculous, because it's BIG. Cherry countertops? Can't imagine how pretty that must be. Trying to stay zen about when this will all be done & following Nana's thread about Marilyn & telling Dugbug he isn't leaving until everything lights up like christmas.
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Post by vaporvac on Dec 8, 2015 23:44:35 GMT -5
The Corain isn't cigarette resistant, but I don't know about hot pans. The engineered quartz is heat-resistant. I have very thin grout lines and have been happy with how it's held up for many years. I think it should look fine with the formica. I should add that my counter has a wooden front that matches the cabinets so that does help to unify the disparate elements. It's fairly easy to find small pieces of granite or marble off cuts. I really like soapstone, but it's hard to find around here.I'm still thinking about this. I love these sort of problems. I really went for efficiency in my kitchen and the hard surface with formica has worked out well. My chimney thing is wood with the VAH insert. It's big, but I have VERY tall ceilings so it looks in scale. I think yours will look super. Be prepared to put Dugbug up for the night! It took us a while to get everything lit properly and I could still do better, I think. You'll see however, that any kitchen looks better with a chambers. Unlike some "new" things it doesn't make the "old" things look shabby. Hard to explain, but you'll see.
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Post by evangeline on Dec 9, 2015 8:01:18 GMT -5
Vv, did some more looking around & basically nothing is heat resistant but stone and tile. I guess I knew that, sigh. I've made do with trivets for decades, but it would be nice to not have to bother. For the price of formica, I might be better off replacing the whole sink-to-stove run. It's only 12 linear feet. And all the fiddly work of fitting in a new material on the sink side might chew up labor dollars. If I did that, I could do something funky on the left side like this curvy side cabinet. & I hope we don't wear Dugbug out, he plans to bring the parts over in bits, then spend a day reassembling. I've got my soapy water and needle nose pliers ready to go.
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Post by dwayner2 on Dec 9, 2015 11:06:41 GMT -5
Sounds like Dugbug does the same as I did with Tempest's stove in NC. Brought it all up in parts then re-assembled it in her kitchen. Much easier to move and you protect the panels and handles. And, it let's your guests wonder "How the heck did you get that thing in here?".... Santa Claus!
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Post by mach12 on Dec 9, 2015 12:11:52 GMT -5
Has anyone ever checked to see how hot the counter gets when the griddle and broiler are in use? I see a lot of pictures where the stove is next to a wall and the stove has been in use awhile and it doesn't seem to be a problem so if that's the case I would think the counter wouldn't be a problem. We really struggled with what to do for our counter tops when we had them done 10 years ago and finally went with Formica and really like it. We're redoing the kitchen and plan to go with Formica again, possibly with stainless trim. My wife is allergic to most metals so the jury is still out on the trim. Gold or silver would be okay I suppose but I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen...
According to the guy who installed my countertops, Formica's standard grade is grade 10 and that's the most common in homes (or grade 20 if there are a lot of curves - 20 is thin and runs around curves easier). Commercial applications generally use grade 12 and since the price was barely higher and the pattern and color we wanted was available in 12 we went with that. The one thing to watch for with Formica is that during installation it's absolutely critical that the adhesive (basically contact cement) be allowed to thoroughly dry on each surface before the Formica is laid on the counter. If it isn't, the solvents in the adhesive can't get out except to wick up through the Formica, causing it to swell and delaminate. If you ever run your hand across a Formica countertop and it's all rough and bumpy then that's almost always what happened. Once it's properly installed it looks good and holds up really well. We cook with our Nesco roasters a lot when we have a bunch of family and friends here for meals and have never had heat issues so I suspect Formica would hold up next to the stove and broiler just fine. I haven't had one set up that way yet so that's kind of speculating though. I'm not sure how hot it gets under the roaster but you can set your hand on the counter under it so it's not near the 275F that the material is rated for.
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Post by mach12 on Dec 9, 2015 12:15:45 GMT -5
Sounds like Dugbug does the same as I did with Tempest's stove in NC. Brought it all up in parts then re-assembled it in her kitchen. Much easier to move and you protect the panels and handles. And, it let's your guests wonder "How the heck did you get that thing in here?".... Santa Claus! Either that or it's the scientific principle that explains all those other unknowns like how electricity comes out of an alternator: PFM. (Pure Flippin' Magic).
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Post by vaporvac on Dec 9, 2015 13:33:17 GMT -5
I love the inspiration picture. If the space is that small that's a great solution! I love those curved shelves as they take one from the 30s through 60s styling. I have a upper set that fill in a small visual to the end of my SS sink in my annex kitchen. It made all the difference stylistically. I'd redo it all. You may be able to salvage the current counter to use as the support and maybe run wood or SS along the front of both sides to tie it all in visually. That also enables you to use tiles which are cheaper, but look goo. It's probably the same figuring in labor, if you're paying someone to do it.
Regarding the stove next to formica, I can't say. I have the tiles, but I didn't want a gap at my stove. If you used a SS Front that could wrap around. There have been a couple of wooden tops posted that looked blackened, but they were higher than the broiler top.
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Post by sporko on Dec 9, 2015 17:50:25 GMT -5
Evangeline... If you are interested in stone, that area is small enough that it could probably be done with a remnant for really cheap. We did two small baths with remnants. They let you walk through the yard and will basically sell you any rock for the same price. That means the really high end stuff costs the same as the low end stuff.
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Post by evangeline on Dec 9, 2015 20:03:43 GMT -5
So, great ideas here! I'm thinking fate may play a role. I'll go down to the architectural salvage yard (Construction Junction. . . .ginormous junk shop!) & see if I get lucky finding a corner cabinet as shown. I'll ask contractor how much to fabricate one. I'll get a quote from the nearby granite shop on two pinkish-grayish granite remnants (we've bought radiator caps & various small marble and granite tops for bathroom cabinets from them. Small jobs but they grit their teeth and do it. ) And this from my neighbor = will get a quote from local metal shop to make me two small stainless steel counter tops. thinking that might look great with the Chambers chrome top. ? And, will get a quote on re-doing the whole kitchen formica. May end up being the cheapest solution! And I agree w/Vaporvac and Mach12, formica can be very nice. Good to know about the commercial grade option. I fitted out a grungy icky laundry room into a pantry a couple of years ago (yes, sounds very glamorous! It IS nice. But it's chocked full of spouse's medicines and medical equipment. Barely room for a few pots, etc. But that's another story.) & I refinished salvage kitchen cabinets & contractor couldn't find anyone doing formica anymore!! Only demand for granite!! ?? He did the formica himself and there was much quiet cursing in a charming Irish brogue. And much adhesive slung over the cabinet doors. Boo. Onward!
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Post by nana on Dec 9, 2015 20:54:03 GMT -5
Remodeling is one of those things that test men's souls. And women's. If you really want to see if your marriage will stand the test of time, try wallpapering a room in an old house with no right angles, with a pattern with a long repeat. If you can do that and not resort to gunfire, you're golden!
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Post by nana on Dec 9, 2015 20:57:46 GMT -5
PS. Formica is cheapest, comes in loads of colors and patterns, and is the least agonizing to change if you find you don't like it after all. But if you only need a small piece--go for what you really love. In 10 years you won't remember what it cost, but you will always remember if you settled for something lesser.
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Post by sporko on Dec 10, 2015 14:42:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I think we spent about $300 to do the entire kitchen and laundry room in a "high end" laminate top. That's the installed price, too. Of course, this was new construction, so they didn't have to feather that into existing surfaces. In comparison, we spent about that on an installed granite remnant in a tiny bathroom.
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Post by evangeline on Dec 10, 2015 18:53:31 GMT -5
Well, everyone, PF says try the stainless option first, and fall back to stone. I still think Fate is going to play a role. . stay tuned and thanks for all the good comments!
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Post by mach12 on Dec 11, 2015 13:06:36 GMT -5
I'm really looking at using zinc in some locations. For sure on our possum belly bakers table. I've seen it used in some commercial application because of its natural antibiotic properties. Because it's not as hard as some metals it's also used sometimes in labs and workplaces like fuel injection repair shops. It was commonly used in kitchens in the past and a lot of people are using it for countertops again. Our Hoosier has the original (1920) zinc on the worktop and it has held up well, though it has a couple of places that need to be soldered. That's one of the cool things about zinc tops. If it gets a hole worn through or poked in it you simply solder it with zinc sheet solder and it's like it was never there. There are several YouTube posts showing how easy it is to do. We're going to be using our possum belly bakers table in place of a kitchen island and I want to protect the original wood top, plus have it kind of match the Hoosier, so built a wood top that sits on it, has a wood lip around it to keep it from moving, lined the underside with felt, and routed the edge to match the curve of our Hoosier. I bought the sheet zinc but haven't installed it yet. For some reason when you retire time is altered and there aren't enough hours in a day to get everything done.
I bought mine from Zip Metals in Ohio: Link to Zip Metals Website
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Post by vaporvac on Dec 11, 2015 13:35:44 GMT -5
Very nice idea. I'd love to see your Hoosier and possum belly bakers table. We once had a post on Hoosiers, maybe on the other site. Does your have the pull-out table?
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Post by mach12 on Dec 11, 2015 17:38:03 GMT -5
I'll have to look and see what I kind find on Hoosier posts. I'll have to get some pictures of them when I can get to them. Our poor spare bedroom is packed while I'm doing the floors. I have a picture of it in the antique shop that shows the top fairly well. We'd been looking for one and had seen this before but its price was higher and in this picture they had it marked down, and then the lady was willing to come down from the sale price and threw in a three legged cast iron pot in the deal. She really wanted the store space back! It was just north of the Oregon-Washington border and I was on my way back from California with a truck full of the 61C and some other stuff so she said she'd sweeten the deal since I'd have to come back to get it. In this picture the brackets are off and the upper cabinet is just sitting on the top. The wheels, brackets, and tambour doors are also removed and in the drawers. The top does slide out with the brackets installed. I also found a porcelain enamel worktop for it so have the option of either the porcelain or the zinc. The zinc tops are bigger though and at this point that's the one we'll be sticking with. Not the best picture but it's all I've got at this point.
This is the same model and year from the This Old House website:
This is an ad showing the painted version and with a porcelain worktop. The following year they had legs vs. the wheels directly into the cabinet frame:
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Post by evangeline on Dec 12, 2015 19:26:28 GMT -5
Wow, Mach12, I really like the idea of zinc, will look at the youtubes. I like the soft color of zinc. I like it much more than SS, I just didn't think about it. Thanks!
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Post by mach12 on Dec 12, 2015 23:31:45 GMT -5
Wow, Mach12, I really like the idea of zinc, will look at the youtubes. I like the soft color of zinc. I like it much more than SS, I just didn't think about it. Thanks! You're sure welcome. At least it's an option to consider. I hate finishing a job and then someone coming up with an option I wish I'd have considered.
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Post by nana on Dec 13, 2015 11:46:57 GMT -5
Thanks for this information from me too! I can see that I will need to protect my butcherblock from the griddle heat, but wasn't sure what to do. I contacted Zip metals already to see what they have! I only need a fairly narrow strip.
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Post by mach12 on Dec 13, 2015 14:15:01 GMT -5
Thanks for this information from me too! I can see that I will need to protect my butcherblock from the griddle heat, but wasn't sure what to do. I contacted Zip metals already to see what they have! I only need a fairly narrow strip. I really liked working with them. The family owned businesses like they are sure seem to go the extra mile. A friend of mine installs x-ray machines and told me about them. He gets his lead from them for the shielded wall that the operators stand behind and says they're the best.
I'd like to figure out a way to put a heat proof material on the back of a zinc heat shield. There's probably a simple way but I haven't had time to look into it.
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Post by nana on Dec 13, 2015 20:15:02 GMT -5
I was thinking of elmers glue and some wool felt. But then again, I have no idea what I'm doing!
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Post by mach12 on Dec 14, 2015 1:00:32 GMT -5
I use carbon fiber welding blankets to protect stuff from spark and slag burns and it'd be easy to cut up one of the cheap ones (seems there are always small ones on sale for around $15 or $20) to use as liner material. Not sure it's the best choice but they're so cheap that I figured I'd look into that first. You can get flax welding blankets too and they'd probably be just fine. I'd have to look at adhesives. The 3M spray adhesive that I use to glue hood liners on the underside of car hoods is rated for something like 200 or 250F but there may be better ones. That's probably good enough though. Anyway, something to kick around.
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Post by Chuckie on Dec 17, 2015 8:22:04 GMT -5
Thanks for this information from me too! I can see that I will need to protect my butcherblock from the griddle heat, but wasn't sure what to do. I contacted Zip metals already to see what they have! I only need a fairly narrow strip. I really liked working with them. The family owned businesses like they are sure seem to go the extra mile. A friend of mine installs x-ray machines and told me about them. He gets his lead from them for the shielded wall that the operators stand behind and says they're the best.
I'd like to figure out a way to put a heat proof material on the back of a zinc heat shield. There's probably a simple way but I haven't had time to look into it.
I got this sheet of rockwool from an outfit in KC when I was redoing our "B". Dunno if it comes any THINNER, but if it DID, methinks that would be IDEAL!!
CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by mach12 on Dec 17, 2015 12:49:04 GMT -5
Wow Chuckie - that looks like the ticket for the side panels of the stoves too! Is it rigid enough to use to replace the asbestos boards that some stoves have behind the side panels?
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Post by Chuckie on Dec 17, 2015 18:54:12 GMT -5
Wow Chuckie - that looks like the ticket for the side panels of the stoves too! Is it rigid enough to use to replace the asbestos boards that some stoves have behind the side panels? Oh yeah, it'll "stand up' under its own power--if leaning on something.. Maybe if you didn't have it "confined" it would sag/warp over time, but methinks if you could find the PROPER thickness, it would do. Methinks this was about 1/2" thick, which (again!) methinks that would be TOO thick, and maybe bow the stove sides... CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by mach12 on Dec 17, 2015 19:35:34 GMT -5
Wow Chuckie - that looks like the ticket for the side panels of the stoves too! Is it rigid enough to use to replace the asbestos boards that some stoves have behind the side panels? Oh yeah, it'll "stand up' under its own power--if leaning on something.. Maybe if you didn't have it "confined" it would sag/warp over time, but methinks if you could find the PROPER thickness, it would do. Methinks this was about 1/2" thick, which (again!) methinks that would be TOO thick, and maybe bow the stove sides... CHEERS! Chuckie That means I need to get off my backside and go out and measure the ones on one of my C's. I was thinking the asbestos panels were about 1/2" thick but don't trust my memory enough to be sure. I don't mind leaving the asbestos panels. They used to tell us that they were fine and long as the ends and sides were taped with that high temperature metal duct tape. Apparently that's where the risk of asbestos dust coming from them is. That being said, I know a lot of people are nervous about asbestos so if I can find a suitable alternative then I'm all for changing them out. And adding them to my stoves that don't have them, like my A series stoves.
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Post by Chuckie on Dec 17, 2015 20:17:00 GMT -5
Oh yeah, it'll "stand up' under its own power--if leaning on something.. Maybe if you didn't have it "confined" it would sag/warp over time, but methinks if you could find the PROPER thickness, it would do. Methinks this was about 1/2" thick, which (again!) methinks that would be TOO thick, and maybe bow the stove sides... CHEERS! Chuckie That means I need to get off my backside and go out and measure the ones on one of my C's. I was thinking the asbestos panels were about 1/2" thick but don't trust my memory enough to be sure. I don't mind leaving the asbestos panels. They used to tell us that they were fine and long as the ends and sides were taped with that high temperature metal duct tape. Apparently that's where the risk of asbestos dust coming from them is. That being said, I know a lot of people are nervous about asbestos so if I can find a suitable alternative then I'm all for changing them out. And adding them to my stoves that don't have them, like my A series stoves.
I THINK I have a "chunk" left--- IF you want me to cut & mail you say a 4 x 4 INCH piece so you can see... Lemme know... CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by kellyjo40 on Dec 21, 2015 2:58:00 GMT -5
Evangeline, don'the know whether you have ever thought about soapstone. Natural stone, non porous, heat means nothing at all to it, and won'the etch from kitchen acids.
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