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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 18:30:02 GMT -5
The scars and scabs of old houses are what makes them beautiful. I hate seeing an old house stripped of all its character and turned into a generic big box special. The same SIL who hates her soapstone counters because they're a little scratched and dinged up, recently bought a small 1920s farm house to "restore". It was pretty much all original including lighting, wood work and bead board ceilings/walls when she bought it. Now it's been completely HGTV'd with drywall and big box store fixtures. I'm pretty sure vinyl windows, vinyl siding and "hand scraped" laminate floors will be next.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 19:30:49 GMT -5
We live in the historic district of Charleston, SC, in a 1890 Victorian. Charleston is visited, every year, by thousands of tourist to see the historic houses and buildings. However, it always amazes me that people with too much money buy a "trophy" house here and completely gut the 1800's interior and replace it with 21st century modern "design." Fortunately the exteriors are protected by a strict architectural code. Frank
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Post by evangeline on Feb 26, 2017 22:01:14 GMT -5
Farupp, wow. Sacrilege. Too bad the interiors aren't protected. Imagine walking in one of those tall doors & seeing - drywall, and a granite floor. Yech.
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Post by Chuckie on Feb 26, 2017 22:55:37 GMT -5
We live in the historic district of Charleston, SC, in a 1890 Victorian. Charleston is visited, every year, by thousands of tourist to see the historic houses and buildings. However, it always amazes me that people with too much money buy a "trophy" house here and completely gut the 1800's interior and replace it with 21st century modern "design." Fortunately the exteriors are protected by a strict architectural code. Frank I believe 'someone' on one of the sites called it "remuddled" rather than 're MODELED'!! I made a LOT of mistakes when I (soloed) and first redid this place in the mid '80's. I took out the boiler/radiators--and now this place is ONLY warm when the (forced air) furnace RUNS. We've replaced some of the windows TWICE--as that's what they said would improve the house warmth--and methinks the original windows were MUCH warmer--even w/o the STORM WINDOWS!! The list goes on & on.... *sigh* I guess I've redeemed myself in that we went back up w/the original 9' ceilings and wallpaper (second owner put in suspended tile & cheap paneling) so guess "Mrs. Peppard" is happy now; at least she hasn't VISITED lately... CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 8:50:59 GMT -5
Remuddled is what "Old House Journal" has coined it. Back to the original topic which was counter tops, though. evangeline go with soapstone or zinc.
When we bought our 100 year-old cabin in Black Mountain, NC, we promised ourselves that we would be as true as possible to it original design and era. Therefore, we put in soapstone counter tops even though some people tried to discourage us. We have never regretted our choice. We also bought a light-gray Chambers 90C at an auction and I spent about three months, off and on, cleaning it and getting it to work. With Don Mattera's help, and some parts from him, I hope to get the oven working properly.
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Post by evangeline on Feb 27, 2017 10:11:35 GMT -5
Oh, Chuckie, been there with those windows. We've got three on the third floor that don't even shut anymore & I think the squirrels are coming in. We still have radiators but the front room is so cold in the winter we don't really go there. It's not easy to figure out.
Thanks for the support farupp and post pics! I love those pastel grays. You won't be sorry. I've only had mine for a couple of weeks but it's been a dream.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 10:39:14 GMT -5
evangeline: pictures in a couple of weeks after we head back north to the cabin.
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Post by pooka on Feb 27, 2017 11:04:57 GMT -5
As with any design question, any counter top choice is a trade off. The best answer is what's best for you. Too often, many people are mesmerized by what's trendy today. When the newness wears off & maybe it doesn't hold up to real life usage as you might like, your stuck with it. That is unless you have deep pocket enough to rip it out & follow the latest design star with the latest fashion choices. Personally, I'd want to choose something that's timeless, & will last me a lifetime. If I could afford it, I'd go with soapstone. Despite what some detractors might say of what it's down sides are, with proper care & feeding, it gains a weather worn patina that only improves with time. Zinc is a newer choice of an old material that has some of the same qualities of being a living surface that will change with time, but again, not necessarily for everyone. I like the warm look of butcher block because I love real wood, but it does need a fastidious person to treat it properly to keep it in top shape. I just yesterday saw someone locally selling sections of old maple bowling ally lanes that could be used as counter, or table tops. That would certainly be a distinctive look. It was $30 a running foot. It take a person of strong will to chose what you like, even though others might pan your choice. There was a time when you'd use what was best for the purpose it was to be used. Marble for pastry work & candy making. Birch or beech for a bread making surface. Maple for butchering & meat cutting. Soapstone for sinks & general purpose work surfaces. Today, people chose what will impress their friends, & what the fashion magazines tell them what's in at the moment. I'd say, look deep into your heart, & honestly & carefully choose what pleases you, & tell the rest of the world to take a flying leap off a high place. Follow your own star where ever it leads you. Be an individual & not a sheep amongst the crowd. Zinc is an interesting choice that I'd like to look into. In looking at the link melissaf posted, they state it's a naturally anti bacterial surface. That's certainly a plus for a food prep area. In a larger kitchen that's set up with different prep stations for different purposes like Julia Child's home kitchens. Each area might use a different counter surface rather than one material for everywhere. I tire of seeing these these shows where people look at a perspective new houses kitchen & say it's old, as if that's a bad thing. They then proceed to rip it all out to replace it with whatever the latest thing to be foisted on us by the home improvement industry as the latest thing. To each his own I guess. I read a posting about a yellow vintage kitchen where they state, "When your home has a vintage yellow kitchen with design integrity the question is always how much to modernize versus how much vintage-ness to keep. Do you restore, replicate or simply evoke? These are not easy decisions and, because houses are living structures changed by each owner’s viewpoint and needs, there is never a universal solution."Deco Vintage Yellow Kitchen Some might think this kitchen is hideous & just old. I love it, though tile counter top wouldn't be my first choice.
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Post by melissaf on Feb 27, 2017 11:27:47 GMT -5
Wow - that yellow kitchen looks almost perfect to me! The only thing that is missing is a Chambers A or B with the art deco back splash.
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Post by evangeline on Feb 27, 2017 14:09:42 GMT -5
Yes Melissaf it's lovely! thanks for the link, Pooka. When I was a child these kitchens were still common. Then somehow the Brady Bunch look took over. My PF grew up with mid-century modern & he loves it. To me it was just the plague that killed a million cheerful kitchens like that dreamy yellow one. But to each his own. Our kitchen was obviously gutted in the 80s. Nothing left of any original charm except for high ceilings, so it's a blank slate. It's north facing with a bank of tall windows on the north wall & is the brightest room in the house. The zinc idea floated to the top because we want to amplify the light & the thought a soft metallic surface would do that.
Pooka you've got me thinking. We need a new flooring material and bowling alley maple would be Just the Ticket.
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Post by pooka on Feb 27, 2017 16:22:37 GMT -5
My home was built 1939/1940. It's mostly untouched aside from paint & aluminum siding. The kitchen is about the same layout as that yellow one I posted, but it was never that grand. Mine has two upper cabinets flanking the sink with one window above the sink & two windows on the right with a space for a small table between. To the left there's three steps down to the back door/basement landing.
By the time it was built, red & white was the newest trend. When I put a different 30s era light up, I found around the old ceiling electric box, the ceiling had been painted red. Through deduction, I'm assuming the room had white walls & cabinets with red chair rail & red accented chrome Art Deco hardware, thought it had been replaced with big chrome knobs in the 50s. The old ones were saved because we never throw anything away that might be reused. I'm betting the counter top was red Formica with chrome edging. The old linoleum had one layer of vinyl over it. I found that as my brother's dogs as puppies while teething caught their teeth in the vinyl & peeled some of it off. The cabinets had been stripped down to the paint grade wood because my aunt wanted real wood. My uncle was too frugal to replace them. They've never look good, but they're functional & solidly built.
The room need a big makeover at least on the surface to bring it back to something of the 30s/40s style it should have. Money is tight, but I've got eighteen more payments till it's payed off. Then I can devote some money back to renovations. I'm thinking before that, I may spend a little to paint the cabinets to match the ivory model 7141 which is a pale yellow accented with the turquoise shade Chambers used in the 20s/30s. The white with gold flecked Formica counter needs replacing. I'm torn between the frugality of leaving it, or splurging on something new. I'd love soapstone, but the cost is probably out of my reach. I've toyed with the idea of butcher block. Salvaged bowling ally wood is a relatively good value in that vain, but I'm hesitant of wood around the sink. Zinc is sounding interesting, because I could fabricate it myself. The reflective quality would be helpful. The two windows face east so they get the morning sun, but the sink window faces north, so natural lighting is dim in the afternoon & evening. With under cabinet lighting, zinc would positively grow & reflect back, lighting up that whole end of the room. At this point, it's all a fantasy of dreams that may come true someday. I can only hope.
evangeline, Salvaged bowling ally wood might be fine for counters or table tops, but it's about 2 1/2' or 3" thick, so I don't think it's practical for flooring. You could get the same look if you could come up with some very narrow maple plank flooring of some sort.
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Post by nana on Feb 27, 2017 17:59:21 GMT -5
You guys won't believe the push-back I get from suppliers around here re: soapstone. Oh, it will scratch. Blah blah. My house is cracked, pitted, kinda catty-wampus, peeling in places, shiny from rubbing in others, it's been through the wars and plenty of scabs just won't heal but that's the point of having an old house, innit? I see all these nice old places dry-walled and covered w/MDF & turned into bland retail boxes & I just can't figure out why. Remind me I said all this when I've complained for the umpteenth time about going through more patching plaster! WIsh I could muster up the guts to make my own zinc countertops. I mentioned to PF that we might watch a video on how to do it, and almost scuttled the project. Demolition is more my speed. I'm hell with a cat's claw. ;-D You always have to "follow the money" with contractors and suppliers. The ones telling you to avoid a certain product, or who are really pushing you towards something you don't really want usually have a motive other than your needs and wants in mind. Maybe it would be more time consuming to do soapstone, or they don't really know how, or they get kickbacks for putting in granite.....whatever it is, they are not the people you want to be working with. When we put in our geothermal system, we had done a lot of research into it already, and were sure it was what we wanted, and we had three companies give us quotes. One company, even though they advertised themselves as geothermal "experts", spent the whole time they were here trying to sell us a combination heat pump and gas furnace, telling us geothermal wouldn't work for us. Needless to say, we did not go with them. Who knows what their reason was, maybe they had a gas furnace they needed to unload on someone. But don't lose heart, and go with what you really want. Find someone who will work WITH you, rather than try to make you acquiesce to them.
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Post by evangeline on Feb 27, 2017 19:37:14 GMT -5
Nana, good point. No one around here is selling either product so it seems daft to them that we would want such a thing. When we did the pantry I wanted either cork or linoleum. The flooring people sent two sales reps who insisted 'linoleum' = vinyl. I kept saying no vinyl, linoleum. It got absurd. Like that old SNL gag. No coke, Pepsi. Finally the guys admitted that they didn't sell or install linoleum. But they had a catalog, by gum. Went with the cork. It is great. ;-). Just didn't buy it from them.
Pooka, we use small lamps with shades for undercounter lighting & It's very warm and cozy. I think the lamplight would be especially pretty bouncing off the soft metal. If you can fabricate it yourself, well then wowsa! Am going to order the sample package from MelissaF's link. I used to make stained glass windows & soldering didn't seem like a big deal to me back then (when dinosaurs roamed the earth). It's not rocket science, is it? It's the backsplash detail that has me scratching my head. And turning the corner at the peninsula. Hmmmm.
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Post by nana on Feb 28, 2017 6:02:49 GMT -5
Cork makes a marvelous floor. I thank these good people in Chambersland every time I set foot in my kitchen. I never knew it was even an option until I read it here!
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Post by pooka on Feb 28, 2017 9:26:47 GMT -5
You know an option that never really occurred to me for counter tops dawned on me as I was ruminating on aspects of renovating my kitchen. It is a budget choice, but Linoleum with a metal edging would work too. It's something you could do yourself. I know someone posted a source for the edging here or on the other site. I'd have to check other manufacturers, but Armstrong Linoleum comes as sheets up to 98.4 ft. long & 6 ft. 7 in. wide. It's also comes in one foot squares & one by two foot rectangles. It being made with linseed oil makes it an anti bacterial surface too. It's also a green material, because it's made from natural materials such as solidified linseed oil (linoxyn), pine rosin, ground cork dust, wood flour, and mineral fillers such as calcium carbonate, most commonly on a burlap or canvas backing.
My house was built by an electrician & his wife. They liked to party & drink maybe a bit too much. In the basement I still have an old buffet they made into a bar complete with a foot rest that they used leftover Linoleum from the kitchen for the top & foot rest. It may not appeal to most, but it's an option.
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Post by nana on Feb 28, 2017 14:49:24 GMT -5
That's right! I've seen that before too! It would be a softer, more forgiving surface if you drop a dish or a glass, but probably not one you'd want to put a hot pan on without a trivet underneath. Every surface has a trade-off. You have to figure out what works best for you.
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Post by evangeline on Feb 28, 2017 15:11:25 GMT -5
True linoleum! The house I grew up in had linoleum counters w/the steel trim. Unfortunately it was black w/white 'veins' = kinda spooky. But the concept is a good one. I showed PF a pic of a really lovely old home w/orangey-melon colored lino counters & the shiny trim. He said, meh. But I it was cool. Joshm I think did something similar in his '50s retro kitchen (here or over the fence in the other yard, can't remember.)
Spent the morning talking to fabricators for work, & while I was at it I asked about zinc. So far no one does it (or has even heard of it. We're kind of a backwater.) But the opinion is I should talk to guys who do copper gutters and such. Good thought!
And I did swing by the soapstone fabricator. Wow, so, so beautiful. Waiting now for a quote.
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Post by melissaf on Feb 28, 2017 15:35:20 GMT -5
evangeline - If you know anybody who does roofing, you should check with them also. Someone on an old house forum that I frequent just did zinc counters and the guy who installed their roof did them. I think it cost them about $200 for materials plus a day of labor.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 13:43:36 GMT -5
Here are a couple of pictures of the "new" kitchen we are installing in our Black Mountain, NC, cabin. The stove is a 1951 Model C, pastel gray color. It goes great with the soapstone and maple counter tops.
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Post by evangeline on Mar 22, 2017 16:52:38 GMT -5
Farupp, beautiful! And that pastel gray Chambers!!! Lovely floor, is that linoleum? Nice butterscotch w/the gray. I think our color scheme will be somewhat similar. Spouse is in favor of cherry cabinets - a similar hue to yours - and light gold oak floors - similar in hue to yours. And soapstone countertops!!
We're replacing the eating table, which is in shambles, with a self-made zinc table top. Excited to work with the material, will report back.
Spent the last three weeks agonizing about the floor plan. My design partner came over today and talked me down out of the trees. (We design landscapes, not kitchens. . . But how different can it be?? Ummmm...) Decisions are so much easier to make when you have a trusted partner.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 17:09:22 GMT -5
Yes, the floor is linoleum. 12 inch squares. Easy to install and cut where needed.
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Post by melissaf on Mar 22, 2017 18:12:57 GMT -5
farupp - Your kitchen is beautiful. My ex MIL lived in Black Mountain for many years. It's a lovely area and I always enjoyed visiting there.
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Post by nana on Mar 22, 2017 19:05:23 GMT -5
Nice work on that kitchen! A good blend of old and new, with the stove the star of the show, proving yet again (as if any of us needed the proof!) that, like a fine jewel, a Chambers looks good in any setting!
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Post by pooka on Mar 22, 2017 21:22:03 GMT -5
Great job farupp. It would probably send a professional decorator screaming into the night as being too much of a hodge-podge. I like it.
People are an accumulation of all we encounter through our lives. We aren't one thing or style. Our homes should reflect the ones who live there & use it, & please them without regard to anyone elses opinion. I've seen too many kitchens, & other rooms that have a look the designer was striving for, or reflect a current trend or style. They can be beautiful to look at, but they aren't living rooms that real people inhabit. They are store windows that don't exist in the real world. That's what some want of their homes. A thing to impress their friends & families. Their are those of us that couldn't put a room together, so I wont fault anyone for getting decorating help. In the final event, you should get the room you want, not the one the decorator wants to give you.
I remember one of those shows that let you look through celebrity homes was showing a female country stars place. She said she was discussing fabrics for furniture with the decorator. The decorator said you can't mix stripes & print. She told her, if I'm paying the bill, I can have anything I want.
This room has a layered look. Those roll up blinds remind me of the big awnings store fronts had many years ago. You've made counter top choices that make sense. Soapstone for the wet area around the sink. It's a wink at the old soapstone sinks & counters from a century ago. The area by the stove being butcher block is like one big cutting board for food prep. I see you've got a moveable cutting board to be used where needed. The mix of open & closed shelving let you have quick access to thing oft used, & to show off that which pleases you. I'd love to put a high shelf like that around my whole kitchen. I've got two. One above each window. One is crammed with glassware & pottery. The other has copper ware & brass. Your mix of crockery works like a three dimensional boarder. It gives the roaming eye something to ponder. The neutral linoleum squares is a homey old fashion look that never goes out of style. The room has a low key feel, even though the Chambers is is center stage. The pastel grey makes in meld in so to not be quite as in your face as another color might.
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Post by evangeline on Mar 23, 2017 8:58:02 GMT -5
I bet when the sun comes through those shades they light up the space!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 9:16:32 GMT -5
Thank you for all the compliments. It has taken about a year, working on weekends once or twice a month, to get to the point we are at presently. We removed two walls (making the kitchen and living room one large room), relocated the sink and refrigerator, and figured out exactly where to plant the Chambers. We rarely lower the kitchen shades as we have a beautiful view of the mountainside. The view in the other direction is of the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Blue Ridge Parkway in the distance.
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Post by mach12 on Mar 23, 2017 10:56:29 GMT -5
It's really encouraging to see a finished project and what a nice job! I seriously considered doing the same type of floor but since we're combining two rooms into one like you did we decided to stick with wood all the way into the kitchen. I'm not sure whether that's a mistake but the cabinets will be sitting on their own floor and the BZ (Pepper) and fridge will be sitting on tile so if the wood doesn't hold up it'll be easy to take up and replace. I put down a lot of those flooring tile squares when I was in the Navy. All the berthing compartments and passageways were tiled with it. The steel decks on a ship are pretty uneven and the tiles had to be heated on an electric hot plate so you could make them form to the deck. Worked great but I can still smell the adhesive and heated tiles.
We're finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel but I sure have my work cut out for me when the kitchen's done. I've put off so many other things - Even my chicken coop needs rebuilding. For some reason it seems that most anything that could go wrong has, like the main house water shut-off valve that's several feet in the ground getting stuck in the closed position and having to be replaced, finding a bad section of the frame sill plate that I had to replace and so on. It's a lot of work but man do I like knowing it's right. We had the last two houses before this one built and had plenty of problems with them, too. I'm starting to wonder whether the only way to avoid the home repair issues is to rent?
With my luck the pine box they bury me in will have termites or something...
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Post by nana on Mar 23, 2017 15:03:41 GMT -5
With my luck the pine box they bury me in will have termites or something... Well, you know how it goes.... The worms go in, the worms go out...🎶
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Post by pooka on Mar 23, 2017 15:35:11 GMT -5
Being a home owner is a never ending chore. Whether you're catching up on differed maintenance, or getting ahead of things before they go south. That doesn't even count upgrades, if you choose to do them. I could drop $10,000 on my house, & you'd almost not notice, except for a new roof. But it's the mechanical things that make a house livable. Without good plumbing, electric & gas systems in top condition, a home is useless, no matter how pretty it is. Even the most lavish home will burn down, blow up or flood if the main systems fail. We hate spending money on things we can't see, but it's the infrastructure that make our lives livable.
The reward of ownership is that it's yours, such as it is. As long as you pay your taxes, it's your piece of the pie. It's part of the American dream. When you rent or lease, you're at your landlords mercy. A good one is your best friend. A bad one is your worst nightmare. Too many of them are out to make a buck no matter what, even if it's at your expense by not fixing something that needs it.
All that said, it's the pride of ownership that make us improve our environment, so that the parts we see, touch & experience please us, & serve our needs. It's the superficial parts that we take the most pride in. It's the parts that we enjoy the most, whether we're trying to show off to other, or we're showing our true stripes, trendy or avant garde. Some of us know our own mind & go our own way. Others chase the fashion trends. I'd rather blaze my own trail than follow the well beaten path. Whichever road you choose, as long as it pleases you, steam full speed ahead. Live your own life & enjoy it as much as you can, but be true to yourself, & make it yours. Not an imitation of someone elses.
farupp, I'm happy for your good fortune to have such a cozy place with inspiring vistas. It's a wonderful place for you to enjoy your Chambers amide the unspoiled grandeur about you. Your kitchen will improve with age & use. You've got a perfect one or two step work triangle from fridge to sink to stove. Now that I notice, It's just about the same size & layout of my basement kitchen. Although I have a high & low counter on either side of my stove, & I have a kitchen table where you've got a walk thru.
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Post by nana on Mar 25, 2017 7:15:00 GMT -5
Being a home owner is a never ending chore. Whether you're catching up on differed maintenance, or getting ahead of things before they go south. That doesn't even count upgrades, if you choose to do them. I could drop $10,000 on my house, & you'd almost not notice, except for a new roof. But it's the mechanical things that make a house livable. Without good plumbing, electric & gas systems in top condition, a home is useless, no matter how pretty it is. Even the most lavish home will burn down, blow up or flood if the main systems fail. We hate spending money on things we can't see, but it's the infrastructure that make our lives livable. So true, Pooka. It's so much more fun to decorate and beautify than to repoint the foundation and fix plumbing leaks, but we homeowners know what will benefit us most in the long run. That's why I love Marilyn so much, I think. She fulfills both needs for me. Beautiful AND practical!
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