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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 12:28:43 GMT -5
This morning when trying to sign in to the Chambers Commune web site (there was a message that it was not available) I ended up being directed to Chambers Rangers site. I registered and it appears that many of the same people on the Commune site are also on the Rangers site along with many of the same topics.
How did it come about that there are two similar sites and why? Is one better than the other? etc.?
Thanks. Frank Rupp Charleston, SC
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Post by pooka on Mar 29, 2017 14:46:26 GMT -5
Frank. The other site was the original Chambers website. There was a dust up years ago between some of the members that escalated between the members & the web master over there. It was rather bitter break up that's best not to delve into. Many members got kicked out, & more quit. As best I've been able to determine, it was about politics that the web master didn't like. Todd the web master took it VERY PERSONALLY. The cast off member started this site as an alternative. Todd views this site as his bitter enemy, so it's best not to mention this site over there, as Todd still bears a grudge. He might get ticked off if you do. He sent me a nasty email when I did, not long after I made that mistake when I first joined up here & there. I placated him & do my best not to aggravate him. If I do mention this site in any of my posts, I just say I saw or read something "Elsewhere". Todd may have soften his bitterness over time, but we do best not to push the issue.
Todd acted a bit dictatorial at the time by laying down the law & editing & deleting members posts he didn't like. That's why this website is called Chambers Commune, because we are all welcome & equal here, & do our best to be respectful of each other. I have had a few rants on occasion blowing off steam, but I do my best not to be insulting or disrespectful to other members.
Don't let this sour you on us or Chambers. These stoves are our passion, don't let personal differences cause any rifts in our numbers. We are all individuals with our own opinions, but we believe in being civil to one another.
I won't say which site is better than the other. Todd sells printed copies of literature & feel he's the only legitimate source of info. Here, we share info freely & have scanned copies of some literature for download to all who seek it. I've posted a number of things for older literature that I've picked up here & there. But the things I've collected are from the first few decades of Chambers, from 1912 up to the 1930s. Most of what Todd sells is from the later years, from the 40s & 50s. He supplemented his income as a church pastor by selling his literature, but recently sold the business from what I understand. His printed & updated stuff is very nice, but if you can't afford it, or don't feel the need, our downloadable info is a democratic way to share info for a company that's been out of business for a long time.
I hope this has enlightened you a bit. If you have any further question, fire away.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 14:58:06 GMT -5
Thanks, pooka. It always amazes me that people with similar interests end up in conflict. I have had similar experiences with vintage race cars, antique cars and wooden boats. It ruins all the fun. I came upon the Rangers site while visiting what I think was the original Chambers site: www.hostboard.com/forums/f423/index9.htmlThanks again. Frank
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Post by pooka on Mar 29, 2017 16:30:41 GMT -5
Frank, I believe in disagreeing without being disagreeable. I posted a couple of rants on the other site not long ago where I quoted from Lincoln's first Inaugural Address where he said,
"I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."
We should echo his thoughts & words in our daily life that we are one people the world over. We should curb our tongues & actions when we can, & do our utmost to get along even if we disagree on anything, for if we don't, we all lose in the end. The damage that's done in any conflict touches us all in detrimental ways. Even if we win a conflict, we are ever impaired by it in ways we usually will deny. Additionally, it will ever color our judgement forever. We all may not be bosom buddies, but we must not be mortal enemies. That serve no purpose but evil.
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Post by nana on Mar 29, 2017 19:29:04 GMT -5
That's a pretty concise explanation, Pooka. I had sort of figured out the gist of it just by reading over tons of old posts, on both sites. I joined this one first, but I like both. And, as you noticed Farupp, a lot of the folks are the same on both. Like Pooka says, we are all united by a love of these wonderful old stoves. As long as we keep that foremost, I think we'll be OK on either site!
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Post by pooka on Mar 29, 2017 22:07:03 GMT -5
I've only heard second & third hand after I got that shockingly nasty email from Todd. I think there's still some brooding ill will on both sides. Ive tried to encourage peace between us, but I think it's best to let sleeping dogs lie. I post anything important here, then there. By double posting more important info gets spread to the most eyes. I feel the freedom to be more expressive here, though I've said some strong things there too more recently. Here, I don't have to watch my Ps & Qs. I do my best to be civil.
When I first joined in late 2010 Todd had to approve whether you could join or not. I think he was afraid of spies or saboteurs or something. I applied over there, but couldn't get in till Todd OKed it, so I came over here & joined instantly. That's why I've got two usernames. Over there, I'm just my stove as model 74. Here, I'm my darker self, as pooka. He's a Irish & or Welsh goblin shape shifter capable of good & ill. In long ago days, a small portion of a crop would be left in the field as the pooka share to placate his ire. If he was treated respectfully, he might give you a good turn. If not, he was known as wrathful or deadly too. Sometimes he was trickster who enjoys a good time. He was known to appear as an horse, eagle or a hare among others, but always very large & always black with red eyes. Though I'm not nearly as ominous, I may express strong views at times.
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Post by evangeline on Mar 30, 2017 13:19:16 GMT -5
Yes, farupp, so many people post on both. I'm Pburgh over there.
I like the idea of a freer range discussion. So far no one on either site has crossed a line. Wish I could say that for other forums. . .
So many interesting people used to chime in. I wonder where they are now? If they hook on from time to time, it would be nice to say hello. And I'm a newcomer, joined in 2013 I think?
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Post by dwayner2 on Apr 15, 2017 1:12:50 GMT -5
Pooka and Evangeline speak the truth here. I actually started on the other forum first then joined here not that long ago. Honestly, I spend more time on the other forum but for no real reason other than I'm kinda lazy about posting things twice. I hope and encourage members from both forums to copy and relay any info I may post on either site. Both sites are great but I do know you can be a little more "descriptive" here as long as you're civil about it. That's a nice thing for a Southern boy like me with a colorful vocabulary.
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Post by lkeriegirl on Apr 18, 2017 21:08:28 GMT -5
I joined the original board in 2006 while researching bungalow style for the house we'd bought but not moved into yet. Pinned under a new baby, I learned a lot. IIRC, the 2008 presidential election broke the board, and wore down some of the benevolence of the overlord. Then people started getting banned and sock puppets snuck across the no mans land 🙄 It was a pretty social group up to that point. I've been away not doing anything worthy of attention or needing help, butvthe kitchen reno is about 70% done and I'm ready to do right by the stove now. 🙌for keeping things going & lively here for liteweights like me!
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Post by pooka on Apr 18, 2017 23:31:21 GMT -5
It's good to hear from someone who witnessed the events first hand. I had several people tell me bits & pieces about it, & their still sensitive & bruised egos still smarting from the conflict.
To paraphrase Shakespeare, politics & love makes fools of us all. They both can drive us to a mania that can rightly be described as unhinged. It's like two bull elephant in musth, enraged by toxic levels of testosterone butting heads over nothing but their foul temper. They will fight to the death out of shear madness, but I expect better of grown adult humans. Perhaps my expectations are too high. History is littered with wars, conflicts & bare knuckle fights over the most trivial & ridiculous point of contention. I suppose none of us are totally immune to the impulse now & again. I just hope our civility would stay our hand or still our tongue before things get out of hand. Once the bombs start flying, real or verbal, it's every man for himself, & no one wins. It leaves a wound that never heals. We are forever diminish & stained by it's blot. The only good thing I can say of it is that it stands as a crowning example of how NOT to act. We need to be reminded of this now & then.
If anyone remembers the movie"Forbidden Planet". It was set on a planet of a once highly advanced race of beings. But they were destroyed in one day by the darkest devils from their own primitive sub conscience, the id, made real by a great machine they built that gave them the power to create them with a thought. We all have that primitive within us, but our civilized nature hold it in check,... mostly.
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Post by Chuckie on Apr 19, 2017 8:18:20 GMT -5
I actually started on the other forum first then joined here not that long ago. I didn't REALIZE there were TWO, because I hadn't bookmarked either site. Soooooooo, when I'd go to "log in", I'd just google "Chambers Stove", and click on the top entry (back then--08 or 09 I think--sometimes THIS site had top rung, other times TODD'S). So I'd go looking for post, and wondering where the HELL they WERE, as I was CERTAIN I had posted them!! I finally voiced my concerns... Someone "over there" I guess had done the SAME THING as I before that, and clued me in via PM that was probably what was occurring---posting it on ONE site, looking on the OTHER--as again I knew not that there WERE two. Yes, I AM a "thick Mick", so it took me a day or two ( NOT signing in everyday) to figure that out!! I had used the same name/PW on BOTH sites, so that never was my issue (I started out w/our initials--tjsbls--and switched to my nickname "Chuckie" some weeks later). As an aside in those days, once logged in, the two forums were nearly identical--especially if you WEREN'T an everyday user... CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by evangeline on Apr 19, 2017 12:44:01 GMT -5
I sort of think the same people post on both sites now, more or less (excepting the obvious. . . .) There may be disagreement regarding politics and values, if we were to get into all that, but I respect the people who post here so much I think I could keep my mouth shut if the need arises. (Oh, but it's so hard.) Today the conflicts and tensions are so serious that a place to get away from it seems more valuable. I lived in Oregon, briefly, long ago. The state is bifurcated 49.5 - 49.5 blue/red (or was), but there is a tradition of mutual respect and problem-solving that I miss. I kinda think the Commune represents the same spirit.
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Post by nana on Apr 19, 2017 17:06:03 GMT -5
I try to remember that there is always,always, always another side to any story, and the ego is extremely hard to rein in, especially so if you are unaware it is your ego that has the bit between its teeth when you're galloping off on your high horse. As right as I think I am, the other person thinks they're just as right, and most times the truth lies somewhere in between. Discussion and disagreement are not so bad, but when I come across someone who will not even listen to opposing views with an open mind, that's when it gets scary for me.
Luckily, I feel this site is very welcoming and friendly, and no one seems to be that rigid. And we all love our stoves. It's very good to have common ground to stand on!
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Post by pooka on Apr 19, 2017 19:37:15 GMT -5
There's enough real evil & devils to guard against in this world without making enemies of our neighbors. If we worked harder to make friends of strangers than to pick apart our differences, regardless how we differ, The world would be a better place. When we become armed camps snipping at one another, everybody loses. For centuries or even millennia, if you didn't like your neighbors, you could move & strike out on your own with other like minded to build your own utopia in a new place. The flaw in that is you bring to seeds of intolerance with you. Good & evil inhabit us all. I think this story is applicable here.
Two Wolves - A Cherokee Parable
An old Cherokee chief was teaching his grandson about life...
"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.
"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.
"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.
"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old chief simply replied, "The one you feed."
If there's one thing I've learned in life is the infinite variety in the universe at every level & concept. But at our core, people are really pretty much the same the world over even given the superficial differences. We need to work to share this one earth in peace. Just remember, the worst devils are within us, not around us.
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Post by dwayner2 on Apr 20, 2017 0:29:52 GMT -5
Pooka said....
"We need to work to share this one earth in peace. Just remember, the worst devils are within us, not around us."
I couldn't agree with that story or you comment more. Kinda along those lines, I saw a bumper sticker once that said something like this, only in fewer words...
"Be nice to the people around you every day, they're only human like you and you don't know what demons they have to deal with"
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Post by nana on Apr 20, 2017 7:53:53 GMT -5
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Post by pooka on Apr 20, 2017 11:32:05 GMT -5
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Post by nana on Apr 20, 2017 16:44:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Pooka!
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Post by pooka on Apr 20, 2017 23:38:53 GMT -5
nana, your link was rather imprecise. I wanted to make sure the right comic strip you referenced got put in our permanent record. Some would find this a bit irreverent & maybe mildly offensive, but it get the meaning across splendidly.
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Post by nana on Apr 21, 2017 6:17:29 GMT -5
I'm OK with everything in it except the smoking crack part! And we know God must have a sense of humor because of camels and platypuses! But you're right, it probably wouldn't fly on the other site!
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Post by evangeline on Apr 21, 2017 7:44:27 GMT -5
Kill less, hate less, cook more!
Reminds me of the movie Babette's Feast.
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Post by pooka on Apr 21, 2017 10:09:01 GMT -5
It's not uncommon that those on the fringe & the derelicts of society that are the most wise & prophetic. When you have nothing, you have a more uncluttered view & outlook. Unfettered by the comforts most take for granted, they see with a clarity most will never know.
I'm not familiar with the movie "Babette's Feast", but in reading the plot on Wikipedia, I think I would like it. It quotes one of the final moments where Martine tearfully says, "Now you will be poor the rest of your life", to which Babette replies, "An artist is never poor."
For those without want, faith can be a coat they take off or put on when it suits them. When you have nothing, often faith is all you have to comfort you. I'm an eternal skeptic. I have no faith but to think freely & draw wisdom from where ever I find it. I'm not bogged down by any dogma that is often a barrier to true clarity of vision. Too often, the dogma of faith becomes a fossilized artifact that prevents free analytical thinking. When we get bogged down by the words & rituals of faith, we lose it's meaning.
nana, I'd also put aardvarks and anteaters on the list of the curious creations.
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