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Post by vaporvac on Jan 18, 2017 12:44:04 GMT -5
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Post by nana on Jan 18, 2017 16:35:58 GMT -5
I try to avoid acidic things in aluminum or even in my seasoned cast iron, for just that reason. They really are such kitchen nerds over there, but in a good way! They get right into the science of cooking.
If you follow their recipes exactly, they will come out perfect. I often take some short cuts if the deviation doesn't make too much of a difference though, because sometimes it just dirties up too many dishes or takes too long to do it their way.They have a recipe for perfect crab cakes that I'd love to taste, but it has about 20,000 steps and involves things like grinding raw shrimp and soaking it in milk, and I just never seem to have the gumption. I want someone to make them for me and invite me over!!
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Post by evangeline on Jan 18, 2017 19:52:32 GMT -5
Hmm. Have been cycling through cookware last two years (via flea markets, thrift stores, etc.) and have given up on everything but tin lined copper. 1) non-reactive 2) super responsive to variations in heat. E.g., lower the flame = instant reduction in temperature. 3) just sticky enough to make a good fond without the egregious mess stuck to SS. Other, hard to quantify: lower heat is required to cook proteins and sauces cook more gently. Yes, you have to show the tin some care: don't heat an empty pan, use wood implements, soak clean, using a cloth, not abrasives. Same cleaning issues apply to seasoned cast iron. . . Most of the new copper is lined w/SS but getting away from the sticky surface (which experts say is just part of the molecular structure of SS, nothing you can do about it) was part of my goals in the first plan. Yes, they can go in the dishwasher. . . But so what? My tin-lined copper cleans up with a wipe of a microfiber cloth. That's my 2 cents. I've bought reasonable (1.9 mm) copper at TJ Maxx and good copper (3mm) from various on the web. Price is high but how many pots do you need, in a lifetime? Trying to buy fewer things, but higher quality. (Hard!) BTW, my Chambers is here, 90% of it. !!! Dugbug is working on the final bits. Can't wait to put my coppers on her burners! (This discussion causes WWIII on Chowhound, Hungry Onion, etc. The enamel-cast iron, plain cast iron v: tri-ply. . . On and on. I say whatever feels good and tastes good. Peace!)
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Post by pooka on Jan 18, 2017 23:45:55 GMT -5
I've never cooked with copper pans, but I'd like to try it on for size. As you say, the pans can be very expensive, so I've been reluctant to bother looking. The only pot I've ever bought new is a big Dutch red enameled stock pot I got at a store that sells overstocked stuff from high end department stores. I've had it for more than twenty years, but I only use it for soups. It hasn't had hard use. My other pans are all hand me downs or ones I've picked up here & there without being too picky. Some are my moms old Wear-Ever pans she got when she got married in 1953. She let me have them, except the big skillet. It was her most used piece, so she wouldn't let go of it. I had to find my own at a thrift store. I've now got two, but the only reason I got the second one was because it was an older one from the 30s. I liked it better only because it's got a wooden handle with a loop for hanging. I've also got some old cast iron frying pans that were well seasoned before I was born. Mom also had a set of copper bottomed Revere-Ware. She hated them. Being so thin stainless steel, they burned easily, so she almost never used them. I've never had too much problem with acidic foods. Either I'm more accustomed to the off taste, or I just don't cook much that would react with the aluminum. I don't know. There's been a group of three copper pans on Craigslist locally that I've been eyeing, though reluctantly. I don't need them, but I want them for no other reason than to try them out before I'm pushing up daisies. The price is right at $40, though I'm unsure if the tin coating is usable. They've been posted for about a month. I even wrote down the phone number to carry with me, but I'm still reluctant. I think this post has just about pushed me over the edge. I'll see what I feel like tomorrow. Vintage Copper Pans - $40 (East Side)Vintage Copper PANS - $40 (East Side)I love the aura of copper, since it was the first metal refined & used by man many millennia ago that launched us out of the stone age toward the modern age. We've cycled through bronze, iron, steel, aluminum & titanium. They all have their uses, pros & cons. Yet none is better than tinned copper for cooking. I want a taste of the magic of copper. Maybe I'm a fool, maybe I'm an idealist, or maybe I'm a dreamer. Perhaps I'm all those things. I see things other refuse to see. I feel that which other don't care to feel. I perceive that nuance other are too numbed to perceive. It is a torture & a blessing in one. Perhaps this is all a waking dream that I'll shake off & be like other men. I hope not. I think that would be the worst nightmare of all. evangeline, I'm with you in the end. Can we not find peace among ourselves & seek our own dreams of joyful cooking & share the feast that results. Any pot in a storm I say will do. Use what works for you, & don't be critical of other methods. Yesterday I got some good Colombian coffee beans to try one of my latest $2 find. It's tinned copper too.
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Post by vaporvac on Jan 18, 2017 23:58:11 GMT -5
Love that coffee pot. I mainly found the link of interest as the amount of iron in seasoned pots is so small. I hadn't expected that as CI is always touted as a good source of iron. I guess that's only for unseasoned CI. It's also interesting that Aluminum doesn't leach as much as I thought it would.
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Post by pooka on Jan 19, 2017 2:27:51 GMT -5
I've heard that about dietary iron from cast iron pans, but I've never heard any scientific tests for it like this article. Seasoning appears to become a barrier between the pan & the food. It's a renewable carbon layer that also doubles as something like Teflon, but it's not an exotic chemistry coating that also kills your canary if you over heat it. I read something a while back about hard anodized aluminum working the same way. It's only a few molecules thick, but that enough for the food not to react with the aluminum. So hard anodized heavy aluminum is the most economical non reactive cookware. It may not be as nonstick as Teflon or Silverstone or whatever high tech coating that's the latest thing.
I recently found a Magnalite MAGPRO one quart saucepan by Wagnerware at a thrift store across the river where I hadn't been in a long time. It's made of very heavy cast aluminum with cast aluminum handle & lid. The one I got wasn't hard anodized, but the more recent ones are. They appear to be some of the best saucepans I've ever seen, unless you go for high end tinned copper pans. They ought to be. their website priced mine at $55. They're heavy enough to go from cook-top to oven without blinking. I'm thinking of trying mine with a small one person roast in the oven to see how well it works.
I seem to remember an article in an issue of National Geographics on gold many years ago. They made a solid gold frying pan to experiment with on the reaction the metal made with food cooked in it. I seem to remember them saying the egg they cooked in it was the most delicious they'd ever tasted. Imagine cooking in solid gold. What a fantasy made real.
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Post by mach12 on Jan 19, 2017 12:51:35 GMT -5
It's also interesting that Aluminum doesn't leach as much as I thought it would. I was surprised by that in the studies I read too. And the facts that aluminum is the 3rd most common element, that we get way more from veggies and that our bodies eliminate over 95% of aluminum. Still, that leaves 5%, so I try to minimize exposure by doing things like never, ever storing food in aluminum pots, keeping my aluminum pots clean and the oxidation removed and stuff like that. I don't think aluminum has caused any problems for me. Not that I can remember...
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Post by mach12 on Jan 19, 2017 13:04:33 GMT -5
I seem to remember an article in an issue of National Geographics on gold many years ago. They made a solid gold frying pan to experiment with on the reaction the metal made with food cooked in it. I seem to remember them saying the egg they cooked in it was the most delicious they'd ever tasted. Imagine cooking in solid gold. What a fantasy made real. That opens up possibilities of a whole new series of kitchen design issues, like gun safes repurposed to hold cookware. And occurrences like "honey, we are going to have to go out for dinner. I can't get the pan safe to open". Or robbers holding up homeowners saying, "give me all your cookware". It'll never be an issue for me though. I have to budget to buy thrift store stuff, so no likelihood of gold cookware concerns around here. And I can't imagine anything outperforming the ceramic coated pan my wife uses for eggs.
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Post by vaporvac on Jan 19, 2017 14:15:32 GMT -5
Pooka, I have an anodize Calphalon pan that was gifted to me and it works very well. The process is meant to be fairly easy to do and probably someone here could try with an old triple. I have a few of those old magnalite pans and I use them from time to time, but I seem to use tomatoes a lot so usually I grab something else. Mach12, I think you've posted on that ceraic pan before; would you mind linking to a source? I need something that can be used on an induction cooker.
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Post by nana on Jan 19, 2017 16:52:21 GMT -5
Just to chime in on the gold theme--My husband's company did a job for a client that took place in the St. Regis Hotel, in NYC. It was owned by John Jacob Astor, and is about the fanciest place I ever set foot in. We treated ourselves to lunch there, just for thr thrill. It was so glamorous and fabulous, I didn't know where to look first. The hotel bar has a giant Maxfield Parrish mural (Old King Cole), my favorite artist. Anyway, I ordered Champagne risotto. It came with actual gold leaf sprinkled on top, which, after asking the waiter if it was safe to eat like the rube I am, I ate. The risotto was delish. The gold added nothing but expense. It was so thin I didn't even notice it was there. We made all the comments you might imagine about the consequences of eating gold and had a good laugh, but it really made me think....If a person got to believing that they were somehow "worth" that kind of stuff, then it's no wonder we have the disparity of wealth we have in this country, and why CEO's think they really need to make tens of millions while laying off workers, for example. I ended up feeling not very good about myself for the indulgence.
But a gold frying pan probably would work great, all other things being equal!
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Post by vaporvac on Jan 19, 2017 17:10:28 GMT -5
I didn't want to go there, but given our soon-to-be Pres' gold-plated seat belts and toilet in his personal jet, I wouldn't be surprised to see some upgrades in the WH kitchen. ;0
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Post by mach12 on Jan 19, 2017 18:06:21 GMT -5
Mach12, I think you've posted on that ceraic pan before; would you mind linking to a source? I need something that can be used on an induction cooker. We got our set at Costco. For cooking eggs my wife uses a touch of butter and low heat and then covers the pan with a glass lid so she can watch them. The pans didn't come with lids so we had to find one that fit. Here's the link to our set: www.costco.com/Chantal%c2%ae-2-Piece-Induction-21-Steel%e2%84%a2-Ceramic-Coated-Fry-Pan-Set.product.100215560.html.
On one of our cross country trips in our RV a couple of years ago she was not happy with the 8" pan that was in the set in our 5th wheel. We happened to be staying in a Walmart parking lot in Wyoming, which we'll sometimes do if we're just stopping for sleep, so we went in and bought one of their lower priced layered steel ceramic coated pans and I swear it does just as well as our pricier ones and seems to be holding up nicely so if you want to just give one a try that'd certainly be a good way to go.
Our next set of pans will likely be a complete set of ceramic pans. I had a complete set in my apartment in Cairo but had to leave it behind when they tossed Mubarek and the place went nuts. They went to a good family though, so worked out just fine.
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Post by vaporvac on Jan 19, 2017 18:59:24 GMT -5
Thank you. Do you know the difference between these ceramic coated ones and enamel coated pans? I assumed the enamel was a glass enamel similar to the Chambers' coating. Is is the same thing by a different name?
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Post by mach12 on Jan 19, 2017 21:59:09 GMT -5
Man do I wish my Dad was still around! He was an engineer for Boeing and his group designed all of the ground support equipment (tools and tool sets) and one of his specialties was Cermets. I don't know a whole lot about the differences but as I understand his explanation the bottom line is that the ceramic coating isn't impacted by thermal expansion the way enamel coating are. I think the ceramic expands and contracts with the pan, plus is much less porous, but that's from my memory. I've always intended to dig into it deeper but just haven't gotten to it. It had something to do with the material itself. We started out talking about a pan that my mother had bought and before you know it we were talking about sprayed cermet coatings, machined cermets, aircraft and space shuttle applications and so on. He thought that pan was pretty awesome but it always seemed to be hanging on a hook while they used their cast iron cookware. Probably wanted to keep it in good shape for when they really needed it.
This would be a really good subject for the group here to dig further into!
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Post by nana on Jan 21, 2017 9:43:03 GMT -5
I've never tried one myself, but I've heard that ceramic knives are wicked sharp and stay that way, too.
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Post by mach12 on Jan 21, 2017 11:25:02 GMT -5
I keep seeing those ceramic knives and wondering about them but since we have a set of knives that keep hanging in there I haven't had the need to try them. I should probably buy some so that I can do a side-by-side comparison. Not much money for doing that kind of stuff until this kitchen is finished though.
I spent a lot of the day yesterday digging for info on the process of ceramic coating of cookware and sure can't find much out there. It seems to me that there have to be variations in the ceramic material, processes and so on just like with anything else. I posted before about my experience with ceramic coating of automotive parts and how I plan to have a set of burners and grates done to compare with porcelain coating but even with that I haven't found a lot of detail on processes and materials. It's kind of like "yeah, we can do it but if we tell you anything about it we'll have to shoot you". Telling me that is a mistake. Kind of like telling Marty McFly that he's chicken. The engineers I used to work with when I was a field rep. love this kind of stuff so I guess it's time to get with them.
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Post by vaporvac on Jan 21, 2017 13:20:08 GMT -5
I don't understand that either.From working with clay I read a lot on all ceramic material and scientific articles, and of course, porcelain is just a type of ceramics. I wonder how they distinguish for the pots. My PICC has a ceramic knife that I've used. VERY sharp. Just don't drop it. : (
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Post by nana on Jan 21, 2017 18:33:48 GMT -5
My PICC has a ceramic knife that I've used. VERY sharp. Just don't drop it. : ( Did you find that out the hard way? Do they shatter like crockery? If so, I'll stick with metal. I'm too much of a klutz.
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