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Post by evangeline on Aug 9, 2015 7:31:43 GMT -5
Hello, Been lurking on the cookware threads, soaking up good advice about vintage cast iron, now trying to find same in the fleatiques of western PA. May have to break down and go over Ohio way. I know many of y'all are masters at fleatique-ing and discount hunting. . . so I want to pass along some info I haven't seen on the threads. Sorry if you've been down this road before. Recently bought a couple of tin-lined copper pans at Tuesday Morning. The stuff is awesome! As a repeat offender in the burned butter/garlic category, I feel redeemed and will sin no more! Low heat cooking is a dream and searing meat is super fast. Deglazing fast. And then the pan wipes clean with a paper towel. Yikes! Soooo, even at Tuesdays the stuff wasn't cheap. Chow Hounders talk about finding similar pots for less than twenty bucks. Comrades, if you run across tin-lined copper for a few shekels, shell them out! I'm on the hunt now for more. Caveat: bring a nickel in your pocket to check the thickness of the copper. I bought Baumalu Gamma cuivre, it ranges from 1.7 mm to 2 mm and sometimes a little more, apparently the sheet copper is variable. A nickel is sposed to be 1.95 mm. I checked the pots I bought and they are thicker than a nickel. Thinner stuff is meant for serving ware, not cooking. FYI top of the line Mauviel, etc. is 2.5 mm. Experienced cooks say the diff. is, if you add cold liquid to a 2mm pot the temp will drop. So I plan to microwave my liqs before adding, if needed, to save, like, $300 bucks. bwahahaha. More caveats: the tin (it's not really tin anymore, it's a nickel alloy, but they call it tin) melts at 450 degrees, so it's not going in a 500 degree Chambers oven. You have to use wood spoons or silicone on the tin. But I use them anyway. And since the tin is so slick, there's no reason to use steel scrapers or harsh scrubbies. But I am on the hunt for a silicon whisk. Cheers!
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Post by vaporvac on Aug 9, 2015 21:04:29 GMT -5
I have a few old tin-lined copper pots, both cheap and "good". It's really astounding how responsive they are to small changes in temp....easy to reach flashpoint so be careful! The other thing is that tin was definitely the teflon of its day....stuff slides off them. I have a set of Copper Craft bowls which are surprisingly heavy. I cool my milk for yogurt in no time. I guess I'll have to check out TM as I've been wanting to find a some larger pots, but I'm always hopeful to find something at an estate sale as I did last time. I've lost hours at a time perusing the copperware forums! Thanks for reminding me.
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Post by nana on Aug 10, 2015 6:12:33 GMT -5
Would the tin give things an off flavor? I'm thinking of the way certain things taste if you leave them in the can after you open it, like olives or pineapple. I always thought it had something to do with being exposed to air and the tin at the same time. Or do we call these things tin but they're really not the same metal?
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Post by evangeline on Aug 10, 2015 7:39:58 GMT -5
Not sure about actual tin, this stuff is an alloy. The expert threads say the tin alloy is very non-reactive, more so than SS even (I think).. I figure the French seem to be the pickiest cooks on the planet about delicate flavoring and this is the traditional lining. As Vaporvac said, you can disappear down a rabbit hole on the sites discussing copper cookware. FInal thought: you can't put the tin-lined in the dishwasher. A deal breaker for many. I don't put my pots in the dishwasher anyway so that's no big deal to me. But I'm only cooking for two. . .. folks cooking for a family every night do what they have to do. I'm kind of gassing on here, but I thought I'd post because I wish someone had clued me in a long time ago. I guess I was intimidated by the cost and not being a good enough cook to merit high end cookware. The discount prices moved me off the square, is all.
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Post by nana on Aug 10, 2015 11:39:45 GMT -5
If you like to cook, you merit the high end, good cookware! Your skills improve as you go along. Ask my husband about the first beef stew I tried to make after we were married, (PS, if we'd had a dog he wouldn't have eaten it) and then ask him how I'm doing now. As for dishwashers, I used to have two, but then they grew up and moved away. I'm glad you posted this because it's something I never knew about, and now I know to be on the lookout for, and I love to cook and like the old hair dye ads used to say: I'm worth it!
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Post by vaporvac on Aug 10, 2015 12:04:16 GMT -5
I don't have large enough pot to make acidic sauces ie tomato, so I can't comment on off-flavour there, but it's completely flavorless for any cooking I've done. Most tin lining has been an alloy of sorts as there are always some impurities. I'll have to look up E's pots' stats. SS lining limits the pot to the life of the SS. The differing temp ranges can sometimes break their bond, and scratches can expose the copper. Not good unless you're making jams & jellies. Once the SS is damaged the pot is toast. Plus, SSteel sticks like mad. Tin-lined pots will last forever as the lining can always be redone. However, I have some cheap SS-lined pots that are for baking and they work just fine. What's really great is that my small gratin dishes and even my small fry pans fit in the broiler! I was thrilled to finally have something I didn't have to worry about cracking and looked good for table serving. Chuckie just got these pans and seems to like them as well, but I'm crazy for copper. I wish mine were as nice as yours, but I'm happy with them. It seems even cheap ones work fairly well, if maybe a little too responsive chamberscommune.proboards.com/thread/2568/new-buyer-mineral-fry-pan
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Post by evangeline on Aug 10, 2015 17:53:57 GMT -5
Nana, Irony. .. . has anyone done a 'what would your want for your last meal' thread? Mine would be: two eggs over easy on sourdough toast with real butter and lots of cracked pepper. Two sliced tomatoes, salt and olive oil optional. Good cup of coffee. Bowl of cherries with a glass of good red wine to finish. Not much cooking involved. I've always been more of an assembler than a cook. But Perfect Spouse has tons of health issues, cystic fibrosis & multi-organ transplants and for years the toxic drugs made it hard for him to choke down one meal a day. He has a feeding tubed in his belly, runs liquid nourishment in overnight. When his docs finally got a dozen problems solved and he could eat again, it was hallelujah, time to cook. So, his meals have to be high in protein and calorie dense and he's a picky eater. That's why I'm getting obsessed with sauces and sears etc etc. Steaks and pork loin and stews in reduction sauces and all that. and BUTTER! Of course I can't eat all that, I'd blow up like a buffalo! Trying to explain to our friends why I'm going the Chambers route. I think this stove's gonna put ten pounds on my fella. Vaporvac, I saw Chuckie's post about the DeBuyer mineral pans - they look awesome! I wonder how they compare to old cast iron? If they are lighter I'll check it out. My wrists don't work as well as they used to. You put your copper under the broiler?? That's amazing! Aren't those things 12000 BTUs? When it gets cooler - next week, praise the lord and the crick don't rise - I'll try a tomato sauce and report back.
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Post by vaporvac on Aug 10, 2015 18:20:50 GMT -5
I can guarantee your sweet heart will appreciate your efforts and your stove will make it fun to try new things and easy to get great results. the Twell also makes lovely stews; just use a SS pot that fits so long as you can remove it. I usually serve from the Twell so it's not too heavy by the time we're through.
Yes, the gratin pans and fry pans are great in the broiler... the former are designed for that really and they only in there a short while; generally just long enough to get nice and toasty, crusty and luscious looking. I put them on top of the broiler pan, but set it to the lowest setting ie furthest from the flame. Just remember the handles get hot! P.S. Have you named your stove yet? p.s. you should start a "last meal" thread. I have so many favourites it would be hard to choose.
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Post by nana on Aug 10, 2015 19:00:34 GMT -5
Evangeline, feed your husband avocados. They are one of the few foods that we can survive on almost exclusively, calorie dense, good fats and easily digested, and they lend themselves to many preparations. I even have a recipe for avocado frosting that I will try someday as soon as I find someone willing to have a green frosted cake. Just today I tried deviled eggs with avocado. Where has that been all my life? Yum!
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Post by evangeline on Aug 10, 2015 20:38:41 GMT -5
Nana, good thought!!! When I'm too tired or disorganized to cook I order a couple of steak bowls from Chipotle w/double avocado. The staff laughs at me! But it Works. I grew up in So. California where people had avocado trees in their backyards. Seems like a long way away, now, and long ago. Send your avocado recipes my way, anything goes. I remember once making a shrimp salad stuffing for a half avocado, with a citrus drizzle. Truthfully the shrimp stuff was gilding on the lily.
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Post by vaporvac on Aug 11, 2015 0:04:23 GMT -5
My favourite is a mustard lemon vinaigrette in the space where the seed was. Yum to that, also. Cold avocado soup is also good. I'm currently growing an avocado...finally got it to sprout, but I think it will be a long time if ever until I got a fruit. I mainly grew it for its leaves which I use as a seasoning.
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Post by nana on Aug 11, 2015 6:23:18 GMT -5
I have a potted avocado tree that is taller than I am, that I started as a teenager. My mom took care of it when I first got married and the Army was sending us hither and yon every 2 years, then I reclaimed it when we finally settled down. It's about 40 years old now, and has bloomed a few times, but I don't think our NY winters allow it enough outdoor sunny time to really bear fruit. Also it may need another avocado tree for pollination....
I've heard that you can use the leaves as seasoning, and I do like the way they smell-- how do you use them?
PS: Just replace the mayo with ripe mashed avocado for the deviled eggs.
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Post by evangeline on Aug 13, 2015 6:55:59 GMT -5
Vaporvac, my white 90c is partly in my basement, partly at Dugbug's getting her innards cleaned up. I should wait till she's installed, hoping by October, to finalize her name. But I've been thinking of her as Evangeline. So she's Big Vangie and I'm small Vangie I guess. Sort of a tribute to the great Emmy Lou Harris. Decided to give Evangeline a happy ending. She waits on the bank of the Mighty Mississippi and her man doesn't come back. . . in my version she hangs out for a couple of days, then says heck with him, goes home and makes a pan of REALLY GOOD cornbread.
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Post by evangeline on Mar 24, 2017 8:19:17 GMT -5
i. Dugbug, being a swell guy, gave me the splay-wall sauce pot you see. Wow! He found it in an antique shop. It is a really nice pot! The closeup shows a US nickel held in players (by my shaky paw, sorry!). You can see the wall thickness of the pot is greater than the nickel. This is a quality pot. The tin lining is still bright, as if it was re-tinned recently. The outside hadn't been cleaned in a while and discoloration is stuck in the planishing marks. These are the places the maker whacked the copper sides with a peen to strengthen the metal. The marks are kind of random - I think this means that the pot was hand-planished. There's no maker mark, it just says Francais, which I think is common. THe US market is very taken up with Mauviel, but there were/are hundreds of makers. The walls are splayed to provide more surface area for reducing sauces. The other pot is an example of a newer style, with more regular planishing. A re-tinning company in Denver sold off old stock and I lucked out. As you can see, the tinning gets darker with use, until it looks a lot like pewter. But that's ok. Tuesday Morning and TJ's also carry Baumalu, which is lighter gauge copper and much cheaper than these heavy gauge things, but they are still super wonderful to cook with! The challenge w/copper and the Chambers is the daisy burners are so efficient, and the copper is so conductive, that I have to use flame tamers to maintain a simmer. Even if you have no use for copper cookware, the stuff is valuable so if you find good ones for reasonable prices at garage sales or such, you can sell them on Ebay. I look all the time but mostly what I see is over-priced presentation ware, which is very thin, w/brass handles. Not meant to cook in, meant to go to the table. I have no idea how Dugbug found this gem. But I am grateful he gave it to me!
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Post by vaporvac on Mar 24, 2017 13:21:11 GMT -5
Just a little bit jealous over here, but it looks beautiful on you stove and now your other pot has a friend. Still looking for some nice tinned ones (or even one) to replace the presentation ware I was gifted. I do cook with it, but I can see its faults. You go, dugbug. What's the first thing you made in it?
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Post by evangeline on Mar 24, 2017 16:37:18 GMT -5
Vv, haven't, yet. ! Made a beef bourgignon (Cooking in Russia restaurant version off Youtube) last week & used the inexpensive Baumalu sautée pan to reduce the pan juices & red wine. Because of the volume. The daisy burners get that copper hot fast! The copper snobs sniff at anything less than 2mm & the Baumalu's about 1.7mm, but honestly, it seems just fine to me. But I'm cooking in smaller volumes. I imagine the heavier gauge would make a huge difference if I was cooking four thick pork chops.
I over-cooked a chicken last week. Thinking I'm heading to the grocery for some mole sauce. May thin that w/a little vino & reduce it back for enchiladas and the windsor will be nice for that. I haven't been on the lookout for a windsor because I don't cook a lot of fussy reductions. But if someone's giving me one, I'm saying thanks.
Oh. And I'm not scoffing at presentation ware, I'd like some myself. You spend a lot of time making a nice meal, wouldn't it be great to put it in a beautiful dish & present it bubbling on the table. ;-)
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Post by nana on Mar 25, 2017 8:13:27 GMT -5
I love love love that saucepan, Evangeline! Both of them actually, but I'm a sucker for the old workhorses of the world that are still going strong, so the old one is my favorite.
I can't wait for spring and garage sale season!
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Post by evangeline on Mar 25, 2017 8:28:02 GMT -5
Nan, go get 'em!
I recall the seasonal shows on Route 20 were pretty spectacular for reasonably priced home goods, but that was a long time ago, and Route 20 may be pretty far south from you up there in the North Woods. . . . I keep promising myself a car trip in August for the Big One around Bouckville.
For whatever reason, hallite & wagnerware are scarce as hens teeth here and *very* expensive in the modest shops. Possibly all the old Burghers are still using their original cookware. Even pretty far into Ohio. And of course vintage cast iron's gone through the roof. So, scrounging these things on the innerwebs is comparative in price (to the aluminum. The cast iron is more expensive!).
The thrift stores here are chock full of circulon and revere ware. Nothing wrong with circulon! Except I hate to scrub out gunk from those pesky little circles. Who came up with that idea??
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Post by dugbug on Mar 29, 2017 9:18:43 GMT -5
Wow! That pot cleaned up nicely!
I found it at a thrift store, actually, many years ago (cheap!) It just felt solid, so I bought it. However, I never used it.
After seeing your collection, it just seemed fitting to pass it along.
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Post by evangeline on Mar 29, 2017 9:36:52 GMT -5
Hi, Dugbug!
I used ketchup and salt. Didn't use Flitz because I kind of like the darkened hammer marks.
Your instincts were spot on, it's at least 2mm thick, the gold standard.
Vaporvac asked if I'd used it yet. I did, to reduce beef stock and red wine. Boy, the splay walls worked a lot better than I expected, the reduction went like lightening. Funny how small tweaks in the pan's geometry can make such a big difference in the cooking. Added this to half a jar of Hernan Mole Poblano, some smoked paprika and half a cup of roasted tomatoes and garlic. & made chicken enchiladas. Too hungry to top them in the broiler. ;-D Mark ate a plateful!
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Post by dugbug on Mar 29, 2017 16:03:24 GMT -5
Nice!
Sounds like that pot may become your go-to! And to think, all this time it had been sitting in my cabinet, collecting dust.
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Post by evangeline on Mar 29, 2017 19:55:22 GMT -5
Dugbug, yup. If I find any all-clad out there in flea land I'll send it your way. I see the anodized aluminum stuff now and then (my neighbor gave me a grill pan he found in a box on the sidewalk.) Others on the forum collect wagnerware, hallite and various weird and wonderful waffle irons. And of course Dwayner collects darn near anything (Hi, Dwayner, just checking to see if you're paying attention.)
I should add this on one of the toaster threads, but I found a Sunbeam T-3 in the Strip the other day but it was $40 and it lacked a cord. If Pooka's reading this, am wondering if I should have sprung for it. It was in good condition, otherwise. $40 is real money though.
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Post by pooka on Mar 29, 2017 21:04:45 GMT -5
I've seen Sunbeam T-3s sell for quite a bit more if they were is really great shape. That price of $40 is on the high side if it doesn't have a cord. $25 or $30 would be better, if not less, but I'm really cheap though. I don't know right off how much a correct new cord would cost, since it's hard wired, & not the kind that's detachable. I lucked out getting mine for $8 at a junk shop. I think the guy clears out garages & house to get his stuff. Some of it is plain junk. Mine has the original cord. I did have to trim a little of the cloth wrapping & tape that end. It's fine, but I don't leave it plugged in when not in use.
I don't collect anything special myself. I look for the moment to move me. Sometimes something will catch my eye. It may be the color. It may be the function. It may be that I think it's useful or beautiful. Too often I fall for art. I look for old kitchen ware that I think may be useful. Recently I picked up an 8" Hallite skillet cause I thought it'd be great when scrambling a few eggs & it is. Plus it's got a ring in the handle, so it can be hung on a hook. It handles a lot better than my old square Wagnerware one. That one is great for bacon though.
Last week I went to the Goodwill in the town across the river. I came away with a $2.50 20s or 30s egg beater with a wooden handle painted that Jadite green that was popular back then. It was the color that caught my eye. My biggest weakness is art that grabs me or nicely crafted hand made pottery, but it's gotta be cheap. I've got such eclectic taste, it's no telling what'll spark my fancy at the moment.
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