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Post by sinthome on Dec 13, 2013 15:46:48 GMT -5
Hi, I just finished the epic drive home from NYC to Asheville, NC with my wonderful Model C Chambers. It came out of a very fancy Park Ave building and was said to be working great before removal. Now I have it home in rural NC and am trying to figure out how to hook it up to LP. I am hoping I can get it done on my own, with some help from this excellent forum! The current stove that I will be replacing has an odd "twist crimp" in the copper gas line, which might have been a part of tweaking it for LP. Do you think I should remove this piece of tubing or keep it? There is a regulator right in front of the propane tank outside.. not sure what it all means. Here are a couple other pictures.. I don't know the proper terminology for things yet, but in this photo, are the aluminum tubes on the right supposed to just sit loosely on top of the cast iron part in the middle? And does the cast iron piece just slide loosely over the the other gas tube? I feel like it should all bolt together tightly, but maybe I am wrong. I don't have internet at home but I downloaded all the manuals, so hopefully my next post will be better informed. Do you have any specific advice while I am tinkering tonight? Other questions-- Is it difficult to get the timer to work? Some of the locking levers do not fully click closed.. hopefully this is easy to fix? The chrome circle piece that sits on the range top seems to have threads in it, but there is no bolt underneath. Dunno if this is important or not.. I will check and see if I get any replies and update my progress.... thanks!
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Post by cinnabar on Dec 13, 2013 16:26:48 GMT -5
Welcome, , since I don't have a stove like yours I will defer on the questions, however..... that twisted line looks nasty. Before I put my stove in I went to the local propane/lp place where we fill the grill tanks and asked about the old propane connections I had on the stove. The guy told me the more connections you have the more chances for a failure and leaks. So, I would replace a fair bit of that and go new with fewer connections and no kinks. Check at the propane place, they were real helpful, plus they have the exact parts if you need any. The flat part that covers over the burners are for the air mixture, they are supposed to be movable while you get the flames adjusted. Somebody else will chime in and explain the orifices and what you need to do. Same with the flash tubes. I don't have those things on Lady It's a beautiful stove. You will love using it. cinnabar
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Post by sporko on Dec 13, 2013 16:55:18 GMT -5
That looks like a REALLY NICE 61C!
I'm with cinnabar.... replace that crimped hose.
For the other questions: * yes, the aluminum tubes sit in the little hole on the burners. (They're "flash tubes.") * yes, the burners fit loosely over the orifices. It's just gravity holding them there. * timer.... some folks have had luck with just cleaning it really good. I was lucky enough that mine just worked. * thumb latches... these probably do need to lock into place. It's what means the gas is "OFF!" I'd make sure they're really pushed in the hole correctly. (You can just grab them and pull them out.) If that doesn't work, there is a metal plate behind them that may need replacing. It has a little square notch in it that the latch clicks into. * the wagon wheel pilot cover.... the little threaded spot is a place where a heat diffuser screws in. I'll see if I can find a picture...
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Post by sporko on Dec 13, 2013 17:08:46 GMT -5
I don't seem to have a pic of the underside of the pilot cover with me... I'll try to remember to take a pic tonight. This is what is behind your thumb latches... under some springs and a few other things:
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Post by sporko on Dec 13, 2013 18:55:12 GMT -5
Here is the underside of the pilot cover. Don't mind the gunk and goo. I'd wildly guess this both deflects heat some and keeps drafts from blowing out the pilot.
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Post by metrowmn on Dec 13, 2013 21:21:23 GMT -5
Sinthome, nice find! I'm just south of you in Polk county. I sent mine down via truck. it's sitting in my contractors warehouse waiting for my house to be renovated. If I find a good propane resource I'll let you know. Good luck with the new stove
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Post by chipperhiker on Dec 14, 2013 19:24:19 GMT -5
Beautiful stove!! Congratulations on your new arrival.
I'd get that mangled piece of gas line out of there, too! Yikes.
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Post by sinthome on Dec 16, 2013 14:43:22 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. Reading the manual really helped! I am so glad the pdfs are available on this forum. I found the heat deflector piece, it had fallen off inside! Thanks so much for the photo, otherwise I never would've figured it out. I am at the hardware store getting some pipe fittings, etc. Hopefully the stove will be installed and working soon. I haven't tried adjusting the orifices for LP, yet.. hopefully that works. The only other problem I have discovered is the round damper plate on the bottom of the oven does not close reliably. I gets hung up slightly and needs some encouragement to make a complete seal. Will this be a major problem? I don't quite understand the damper concept yet or the relationship between the oven damper lever and the thermostat.
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Post by sporko on Dec 16, 2013 15:20:46 GMT -5
I don't know that there is a lot of scientific adjustment to the circular damper. (Someone will correct me if I am wrong there.)
It mostly needs to be "open" and "closed". If yours doesn't close, that could be a bit of a problem when cooking with the gas off.
There are a few adjustments for it. (I'm going off of a faulty memory... It's been a while since I've been in there). * There is a linkage that runs from the "oven" gas knob down to the bottom of the service cabinet and under the oven. This linkage also links to the vent hole in the rear of the stove. I forget precisely where the adjustments are... but I'm going to say I think it is in the bottom of the service cabinet. You can shorten/lengthen the length of several rods. * I also think there is a nut on the round damper itself that limits how high the damper is when fully closed.
This is not linked at all to the thermostat. It is only linked to "oven is on" and "oven is off". When the gas is on, it needs a fresh air source (circle in the bottom) and a heat vent (square in the back).
When the gas is off, it should all close tightly and hold the heat in.
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Post by pooka on Dec 16, 2013 15:22:31 GMT -5
The dampers are connected to the valve by linkage that close them to seal in the heat after you shut the gas off. If one of them is sticking a bit, it need to have the linkage gone through & clean of gunk from all it's pivot points. There are also a couple of places to adjust them so they both work in unison. There's instructions in the manual if you need to do this. Yours probably only needs cleaning.
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Post by eidos on Dec 18, 2013 21:58:38 GMT -5
I may have missed something, but aren't't you supposed to not use copper for gas lines? something about it degrading the copper? might check on that before you replace with more copper.
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Post by Chuckie on Dec 19, 2013 10:47:37 GMT -5
I may have missed something, but aren't't you supposed to not use copper for gas lines? something about it degrading the copper? might check on that before you replace with more copper. Zach: copper tubing is the "norm" for LP (propane) gas. Natural gas causes it to 'flake' and eventually plug up orifices; I think I read somewhere once it's not the GAS that cause the corrosion, but the "odorant" (mercaptan) they put in natural gas. CHEERS! Chuckie
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Post by eidos on Dec 19, 2013 18:20:23 GMT -5
Thanks Chuckie, I missed the LP thing, there ya go, i didnt read well enough haha
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Post by sinthome on Dec 19, 2013 21:31:25 GMT -5
Update on my progress: I have successfully cooked on the burners and with the broiler/griddle! It is great fun and performs well. I am planning on trying the thermowell for rice soon.
The orifices do not have pins in them! I had to study the diagram in the manual a few times before I noticed the "Fixed Orifice Cap" style. They were all only threaded about half-way and of course the remaining threads were hopelessly gunked up and took foerever to clean and tighten down (the one for the oven was the worst since I couldn't fit a ratchet wrench in there).
I have adjusted the pilot lights and have experimented with leaving them on, but it makes me a little nervous that they will go out and cause a gas explosion. Is this fear irrational? I am going to pick up a combustible gas leak detector alarm.. but I still worry about it.
Other issues: Assuming I have the right type orifices (I think I do), I think the burners are still putting out too much gas. I have the dampers all the way open (which seems to be the bluest flame with LP) and when the gas is fully on it sounds like a rocket about to take off. The flame turns orange at the tip and is definitely an inch or more (definitely higher than the 3/8" soft blue cone advised in the manual). Maybe I need a different regulator or and additional one before the stove (the gas also supplies a tankless water heater)?
The oven is giving me grief. I fixed the damper plate by bending it slightly with locking pliers (after no other adjustments helped, believe me I tired!) and now it doesn't lay quite flush with the bottom of the oven, but at least it doesn't catch on the lip anymore. The pilot works but the burner will not light and the thermostat does not respond to calibration beyond the pilot height adjustment. The by-pass pin does not seem to do anything and I can't make the gas flow into the burner at all. Really bummed about it. Besides spending hundreds getting it rebuilt, is there anything else I can try on my own? I followed the manual and tried removing the thermostat, which was of course caked with grime all over. However, when I opened it up the insides were perfectly spotless and looked brand new. If it is the capillary tube and bulb.. is there a way to test that or a suitable retrofit replacement I can try? Or maybe I am just not doing something obvious? I didn't mess with the dial settings at all, since I figured those were more for fine tuning.
What kind of grease should I use for the gas valves, etc? Is it a graphite one? It would be great if there was something available at the local hardware store.
Regarding the timer--the dial does not "bite" onto the shaft. When I remove the dial, I can turn the shaft with pliers and make it the timer ring, but I don't think it is counting down. Is there a retrofit timer I can swap it with or am I better off trying to open up the original and lubricate it? Any thoughts on fixing the dial?
If any photos will help me help you help me.. just let me know and I will take them! Thanks so much everyone!
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Post by sinthome on Dec 19, 2013 21:58:11 GMT -5
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Post by sporko on Dec 20, 2013 10:04:13 GMT -5
I have adjusted the pilot lights and have experimented with leaving them on, but it makes me a little nervous that they will go out and cause a gas explosion. Is this fear irrational? I am going to pick up a combustible gas leak detector alarm.. but I still worry about it. Yeah, it's not nearly as big a deal as you think it is.... especially with the top pilot. The gas comes out OHMYGODSOSLOWLY. It would take a looong time to fill up a room. People have had standing pilots for a long long time. Since the oven is closed, it is more likely to be a hazard (if you have a standing pilot... not everyone does.) That is why the oven commonly has a thermocouple and shutoff valve when it has a standing pilot. Other issues: Assuming I have the right type orifices (I think I do), I think the burners are still putting out too much gas. I have the dampers all the way open (which seems to be the bluest flame with LP) and when the gas is fully on it sounds like a rocket about to take off. The flame turns orange at the tip and is definitely an inch or more (definitely higher than the 3/8" soft blue cone advised in the manual). Maybe I need a different regulator or and additional one before the stove (the gas also supplies a tankless water heater)? I am sort of wildly guessing... but I'm going to say I think you have the wrong orifice. Dampers full open and jet plane noises are not normal. I have LP as well. The orifice for LP is tiny. I mean tiny! If you have adjustable orifices, you turn them all the way closed. The normal LP pressure is also tiny. (I think it's in the 8-10 inches of water range, which is like .3 psi. Propane is much hotter than NG, so it needs to be really low. You probably want to get either adjustable orifices or the right size fixed orifice.
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Post by pooka on Dec 20, 2013 13:27:30 GMT -5
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Post by vaporvac on Dec 20, 2013 13:53:45 GMT -5
Not useful, so I erased it.
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Post by chipperhiker on Dec 20, 2013 21:05:09 GMT -5
Vaporvac, I wonder if your use of the term "gas" to specifically refer to natural gas is a local usage of the term?
Around my neck of the woods, you have to specify which type of gas you really mean. Saying you have a "gas" stove wouldn't mean anything around here, beyond conveying the general idea that your fuel source is a combustible air-like substance. I suspect that's the case in other areas, too.
Anyway, I'm not being critical, just pointing out that what may seem to be the norm to you seems to vary by locale.
It sounds to me that sinthome comes from an area like mine where you can refer to gas lines, gas pressure, gas flow, and gas orifices without meaning that you're running natural gas through said lines, etc..
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Post by sinthome on Dec 22, 2013 13:29:25 GMT -5
I use the terms LP/propane/gas interchangeably.
How likely is it that the diastat tube and bulb are damaged? Is there a way to test? I will take apart the thermostat again, but the insides looked very clean, so I am wondering if that might not be it. I will also try the cold calibration test to see if anything changes. Could the burner itself be clogged? The pilot height adjusts fine, but the burner will not light.
Is there a cheap place online to buy the LP orifices?
I will be getting a pressure gauge to check the pressure on my regulator. Currently we are in a torrential downpour, literally the streets are rivers and we have a dozen visitors due to arrive tomorrow.. so probably not the highest priority for the moment, but I will report back if I can figure anything out on the stove. I made rice in the thermowell last night and it was excellent.
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Post by vaporvac on Dec 22, 2013 18:28:37 GMT -5
I don't take that in a bad way. Here folks say propane or gas with the latter meaning natural gas. It could just be the people I talk to, but they generally dnstinguish between the types. The chambers manual also makes this distinction and the type of fuel is what determines the size orifice which I'm sure you know. I was just getting confused because sinthome said she wanted to set up for LP, and said she thought her fixed orifices were correct for LP. I had understood the question to be how to go from NG to LP. ...I just wanted to be sure we were all on the same page. Chambers also mentions city gas and some other types one doesn't see much anymore. The short cap is for NG, the long one is for propane. I'm not sure if you SHOULD use them interchangeably, but I DID. I had asked that, but noone knew so i had my LP long caps drilled out for the NG diameter.In fact, it's shown in the manual, but somehow I missed the distinction. I think it's because I now have the hard copy from Todd that's easier to read. So, sinthome, was the original stove set up for Natural Gas or LP? If NG, then the orifices are probably too big and that might explain the large flame. . If you're going to buy new orifices I'd just buy adjustable ones from donmattera.com, but I'd check to be sure yours are incorrect. I boiled out all my burners with washing soda and it removed tons of debris, but I think in your case, there's just a problem with the gas getting to the burner and from my experience, I suspect the problem is in the calibration. How is the by-pass burner function? Also, let me back up...do you have a standing pilot or does your oven need to be lit by a match? Have I confused you enough yet? Sorry. Just trying to help. Maybe I should stop now.
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Post by sporko on Dec 22, 2013 19:20:13 GMT -5
If you're going to buy new orifices I'd just buy adjustable ones from donmattera.com, ] I believe you mean: www.matterastoveworks.com/I'm a little worried by "I will take apart the thermostat again, but the insides looked very clean"... Now, I've never taken my thermostat apart, but my understanding is: DON'T. I've always understood that you either have to have them professionally rebuilt or just replace them with a working/used thermostat. Don Mattera is a good, trusted source. Ebay can also be a good source (with varying trust.)
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Post by vaporvac on Dec 22, 2013 19:30:39 GMT -5
You're right as usual. sporko. I just grabbed that off the top of head! just wanted to get his name out there. I can't believe the Tstat doesn't work...it's a really beautiful stove.
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