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Post by pipercollins on Aug 22, 2007 12:33:39 GMT -5
As my own education on this is new and fresh, and because the instructions in the various manuals are spread out over many pages, I submit the following step-by-step guide to Chambers Oven Burner Adjustments. This is almost entirely restated material from original B and C manual instructions. This guide assumes that the range is properly installed and connected to gas with correct orifices, etc. Hopefully it is formatted and stated such that it's a little clearer to most folks. CHECK PILOT AND BYPASS FLAME1. Set oven temp knob to 70 deg. 2. Turn on oven gas knob 3. Light oven (if you don't have safety valve with standing pilot). 4. Observe the pilot light and flame on the burner. - Pilot should be lit and remain burning at about 1/2" flame until oven gas is turned off (original Chambers pilot).
- Burner should have a small, approximately 1/8" soft blue flame at each small hole ("port") all the way around the burner. This is the "by-pass" flame.
- Pilot and by-pass flames should continue to burn when the oven door is opened and closed normally. If either flame tends to go out when the door is opened, adjust it slightly higher.
CHECK FULL BURNER FLAME 5. Once pilot and by-pass are set correctly, place a reliable oven thermometer in the center of the oven. 6. Turn the oven temp knob to 400 deg. 7. Observe the oven burner. The flame should increase to approximately 3/4", but should still have a "soft blue cone". Ideally there should be no yellow, or at most a very small yellow tip on the flames. (The color and shape of the flame is adjusted by rotating the air mixer shutter where the burner meets the orifice cap.) CHECK THERMOSTAT CALIBRATION8. Close the oven door and wait 20 minutes to check the temp. After 20 minutes, briefly check the thermometer reading. Check again at 25 and 30 minutes. If all three readings correspond with the dial setting (400 deg.), the oven is in calibration. If the three readings agree, but are different than the dial setting, loosen the dial (and sub dial for model C) and change its position (being careful not to move the shaft) to correspond to the thermometer reading. If the three readings vary significantly, there may be a gas flow problem that should have been apparent in earlier steps. Consult an expert. CHECK THERMOSTAT FULL ON/BY-PASS OPERATION9. When the oven reaches the set temp, the burner flame should drop down to the bypass setting (1/8" flame all around). The burner flame should remain at the bypass level until the oven temp cools enough that the thermostat opens up and the flame increases to full again (3/4"). If the thermostat doesn't seem to change the flame correctly between full and bypass, it is possible that the thermostat needs adjustment (see Step 8.), or possibly the temp knob is binding on the front panel (loosen the knob and move it slightly outward on the shaft), or the thermostat valve may need to be cleaned or otherwise serviced. Pilot and By-pass Adjustments:The adjusters for the oven pilot and the by-pass flame are small pins with T-handles on the back side of the thermostat, accessible through the service cabinet. (Note: if you have a safety valve and retro-fit pilot installed, the pilot outlet on the thermostat is plugged and is not used.) On model B, the pilot adjustment pin is located on the back side of the thermostat at the LOWER RIGHT. The by-pass flame adjustment is located similarly at the LOWER LEFT. On model C, both adjustments are on the right side of the back of the thermostat. The pilot adjustment is on the UPPER RIGHT. The by-pass flame adjustment pin is on the LOWER RIGHT.
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Post by pipercollins on Aug 22, 2007 12:55:52 GMT -5
Here's an old snap of a couple of thermostats to show the pilot and by-pass adjusters. The one on the left is a model AQ common on model B thru WWII. The one on the right is a 2200S, common on BZ and C models. (Unfortunately, in the photo, the 2200S is upside down. The AQ is right-side up.) Red arrows indicate the adjusting stems for pilot and by-pass flames. (You can see that the by-pass flame adjuster is slightly bent on this particular 2200S one.)
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Post by chipperhiker on Aug 22, 2007 13:00:04 GMT -5
Thanks, Piper, for summarizing this for us.
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Post by berlyn on Aug 22, 2007 14:53:24 GMT -5
Thank you Piper for condensing the service manual oven section into one easy place!! My lesson learned is don't go messing with adjustment pins if everything was correct in the first place. I'm blaming it all on my curious nature of how it works and why. In return for my husband being gracious enough of figuring out what the hell I screwed up and messing with Big Bertha last night for about 3 hours. I have 2 loafs of bread rising and DOH's meatloaf for dinner. ;D By the way, my 1939 14-B has the themostat on the right. Easy to reach the wrong pin. That's my story and I'm sticking too it ;D
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Post by pipercollins on Aug 22, 2007 15:31:22 GMT -5
Thank you Piper for condensing the service manual oven section into one easy place!! My lesson learned is don't go messing with adjustment pins if everything was correct in the first place. I'm blaming it all on my curious nature of how it works and why. In return for my husband being gracious enough of figuring out what the hell I screwed up and messing with Big Bertha last night for about 3 hours. I have 2 loafs of bread rising and DOH's meatloaf for dinner. ;D By the way, my 1939 14-B has the themostat on the right. Easy to reach the wrong pin. That's my story and I'm sticking too it ;D All good Berlyn. Glad you're back in business.
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Post by tux_sf on Aug 22, 2007 19:07:23 GMT -5
Excellent instructions Piper. I think I actually understand what the manual is talking about now. Much better than my earlier befuddlement.
Any chance we can put these up on the website? Along with some other 'how-tos' they would make an excellent addition.
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Post by pipercollins on Aug 22, 2007 22:19:15 GMT -5
Excellent instructions Piper. I think I actually understand what the manual is talking about now. Much better than my earlier befuddlement. Any chance we can put these up on the website? Along with some other 'how-tos' they would make an excellent addition. Go right ahead. It's not unique information...just a condensed presentation.
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Post by tux_sf on Aug 22, 2007 22:32:39 GMT -5
Excellent instructions Piper. I think I actually understand what the manual is talking about now. Much better than my earlier befuddlement. Any chance we can put these up on the website? Along with some other 'how-tos' they would make an excellent addition. Go right ahead. It's not unique information...just a condensed presentation. Maybe so, but it is a model of clarity compared to the original documentation. Thanks for permission to use your wording. Don't get me wrong, the manuals are a great resource & I'm happy we have them, but they aren't exactly written for normal human beings to easily understand in a lot of cases .
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Post by damnoldhippie on Aug 22, 2007 23:40:22 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, the manuals are a great resource & I'm happy we have them, but they aren't exactly written for normal human beings to easily understand in a lot of cases . I'm finding my main complaint in looking at the original manuals is that the drawings/diagrams just aren't enough. I grew up taking stuff apart using manuals, and my favorite diagrams were "Exploded View" drawings...I just understand them a lot better than "flat" drawings.
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Post by pipercollins on Aug 23, 2007 10:00:35 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, the manuals are a great resource & I'm happy we have them, but they aren't exactly written for normal human beings to easily understand in a lot of cases . I'm finding my main complaint in looking at the original manuals is that the drawings/diagrams just aren't enough. I grew up taking stuff apart using manuals, and my favorite diagrams were "Exploded View" drawings...I just understand them a lot better than "flat" drawings. I am positively blessed that I had four stoves to work with when I undertook my multiple restoration project. I could always leave one of them pretty much intact so I never got too far lost on what went where. The only other approach is to bag and tag each little piece when disassembling, drawing your own diagrams as necessary.
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Post by pipercollins on Sept 20, 2008 10:56:13 GMT -5
Hello all. I'm dropping in a new post to bring this thread back to the top. It's over a year old now, but this thread has the answers to a lot of recent questions about thermostat and burner adjustments.
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Post by mcdesign on Oct 12, 2008 17:13:28 GMT -5
I sort of wish I had not adjusted my burners now. The oven flame in my opinion, is much more difficult to measure than the other burners. The flames on my oven burner really seem to gush and dance about wildly at most any setting of the air mixer shutter, even with the kitchen windows closed. I managed to measure some of the lower ones along the front and guessed they might be 3/4" but the majority of flames were much larger and spreading dramatically upward and outward. They do not appear perfect or consistent as in the manual diagram and not a soft blue cone. Is this normal? All the other burners seem to have correct output.
And when measuring the bypass flame I get an inconsistent small flame going on and off traveling around the burner, but when I almost closed the door and peeked in it was better. But this flame measuring is tricky business. When I hold a tape measure too close and it makes contact it elongates and appears larger than it is.
I have baked two meals and biscuits in it and they came out okay but worry that it is not correct.
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Post by pipercollins on Oct 12, 2008 20:32:24 GMT -5
It doesn't sound right to me mcd. What kind of gas are you burning, LP or natural gas?
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Post by mcdesign on Oct 12, 2008 21:36:25 GMT -5
Natural gas. The guy who ran the gas line is coming back this week to finish something and I will ask him about it as well. I wonder if the problem is with the burner itself rather than output because the others function properly. Like I said, the flames really sort of billow out and up instead of having a distinct shape as in the diagram.
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Post by pipercollins on Oct 13, 2008 8:54:16 GMT -5
Either it's getting a bad air mix, or it's not getting steady gas pressure. (If you had LP I was going to suggest getting a regulator...shouldn't be a problem with NG though.)
If playing with the air shutter doesn't help, you might have some kind of schmutz in the burner that you could clean out. Take the burner out, run a jet of water through it and be sure to drain it well. If you do that, be sure that it's completely dry inside before you re-install it. (Putting in a low oven for a couple hours is great for that...but it leads to kind of a catch 22 unless you're one of those multiple stove owners.)
Still, it really seems like it should be in the air mix. You might also make sure the orifice for that burner is clean and unobstructed.
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Post by mcdesign on Oct 13, 2008 9:22:04 GMT -5
Thanks and I will try this because when I took the burner out and jiggled it around there is something in there and makes a metallic sound, maybe rust or dirt. For adjustment the only thing I did was rotate the orifice cap and tried to screw it in when the flame looked more normal. Is that a mixer pin leading to the burner on the right and something that needs to be adjusted as part of the process? I have not touched that.
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Post by pipercollins on Oct 13, 2008 11:43:44 GMT -5
There should not be a mixer pin in the orifice for the oven burner, it should have a regular hole in the cap. (Oven and boiler burners are both like that, and don't even change for different gasses.) So there's no adjustment there, but it is one more thing to check for any crud or obstruction.
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Post by mcdesign on Oct 13, 2008 14:58:13 GMT -5
I understand now and see that it is as simple to adjust as the instructions state. I flushed it out with the hose on full quite a few times and set it out on the driveway to bake in the sun. There is still some small piece of metal inside, probably iron or rust that dislodged when moving. Sort of like a kidney stone but I am unable to do laser surgery. The movers were very rough and it slipped off the dolly twice and banged against the concrete steps.
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Post by pipercollins on Oct 13, 2008 18:11:57 GMT -5
That really shouldn't be a major problem, unless a largish piece lodged itself near the open end and was able to disrupt the overall flow of gas. That's pretty unlikely though. If there are still some rattles that you just cant remove, shake them down to the opposite corner before reinstalling the burner.
You might also try blowing through with an air compressor hose too.
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Post by mcdesign on Oct 14, 2008 18:41:29 GMT -5
I looked for my airbrush compressor but could not find it, so I dried it with a hair dryer aimed at the mouth of opening. I reinstalled the burner and checked flame heights again. It is still not a perfectly consistent height all the way around but the flame is more uniform than before and not as wild. The bypass flame still races around and disappears in some places. I baked a pizza for lunch and am doing a meatloaf, veggie and raisin pie (CWTGTO) now and the temperature seems to be correct, even without calibration.
Thanks a lot for all the suggestions!
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Post by berlyn on Oct 14, 2008 19:11:31 GMT -5
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Post by pipercollins on Oct 14, 2008 21:04:39 GMT -5
Actually that's a pretty good tip. The electrolysis will do a lot to dissolve built up grease and "chunky rust". It won't restore a clean finish, but that's not what you're after. I wouldn't normally assume that rust would be a big problem on the inside of the the burner, but if it is in your case, the electrolysis thing is another thing that might help.
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Post by mcdesign on Nov 5, 2008 18:55:08 GMT -5
After finally understanding where the mixer shutter is and adjusting it along with the orifice cap for the Thermowell burner, I got an idea.
I used this same method to tame the out-of-control oven burner flame. There is a similar bolt around tubing leading to the oven burner, although there is no mention of turning this bolt when adjusting the oven burner in the manual. So I turned this in combination with rotating the orifice cap and finally got close to a 3/4" soft cone.
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Post by pipercollins on Nov 6, 2008 7:21:00 GMT -5
Hard to argue with success, but I still have a couple concerns.
The orifice cap for the oven burner (like the broiler) should not be adjustable. It should just have a hole and no needle pin that comes through it. So turning that cap shouldn't make a difference. But that isn't a big deal either way.
Second, and more importantly, I'm trying to get my head around your "bolt around tubing". The air shutter on the oven burner is a circular plate with a slot in it that can be rotated to cover more or less of the opening. I'm not as familiar with model C, but I don't think the T-well burner is the same. Now, if you're talking about the brass compression nut that holds the aluminum tubing to the orifice (or to the gas valve) you should NOT be adjusting that. Those nuts should be tight. If you've tamed your flame by playing with those fittings, you haven't done it the right way and you could have a gas leak.
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Post by pipercollins on Nov 6, 2008 7:27:13 GMT -5
For clarity, here is a picture of a compression fitting. This isn't from a Chambers, so the bits look slightly different (mainly that we have copper tubing here instead of aluminum). But you should NOT be "adjusting" these parts. They need to be tight and stay that way.
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Post by mcdesign on Nov 6, 2008 13:18:22 GMT -5
I appreciate your warnings and concern for safety, so I examined what I had done. Then I checked for leaks with soap suds and burners on and reinstalled the explosive gas alarm in the kitchen. The orifice cap for the oven burner (like the broiler) should not be adjustable. It should just have a hole and no needle pin that comes through it. So turning that cap shouldn't make a difference. But that isn't a big deal either way. Then why does it state in both the B and C model manuals under Oven Burner and Broiler Burner Adjustments the following: "Adjust flame by moving air shutter and orifice cap..." I removed the oven burner and looked at the orifice cap and it appears to be adjustable just as the Thermowell is by turning this hexagonal nut. Before I had tried using only the air shutter as you had suggested and I was never able to achieve a cone of any distinct shape. It was just the billowing flame so I figured this was due to the loose metal piece inside the burner. But the correct flame was achieved only after adjusting this nut which I assume is what they mean by "adjust the Orifice Cap in the regular way so that the proper height flame is obtained." [C manual, p. 14] I took a photo but it is out of focus. This is what I turned. Actually I used a soft focus lens to make Margo's orifice appear more youthful and attractive.
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Post by pipercollins on Nov 7, 2008 8:27:58 GMT -5
That IS the orifice cap. The hex "nut" is part of the cap. You are not doing anything dangerous by adjusting it. And apparently, you do have an adjustable orifice.
In my model B experience I've never seen an adjustable orifice for the oven burner...only for stove tops. If this orifice cap does have the needle inside that moves in or out of the end hole as you turn the cap, then it really is an adjustable one. In which case you must be on the right track.
I was just afraid you were loosening your tubing connections. That would be bad.
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Post by dael on Jul 27, 2009 21:00:51 GMT -5
Thanks for all the posts. The adjustments on my model A have been a problem since I've gotten it put back together (years now) - and this evening, with all of your help, I think I have an oven that might get above 325 and a broiler that might work (it's too hot these days to try either of them out fully) - I did get both burners to light more completely and the oven burner is capable of both the 1/8" and the 3/4" high flames with the thermostat being adjusted. There were a few yellow sparklies that I couldn't seem to get rid of no matter what I did. The problem was definitely the adjustable orifices - the broiler orifice was the most trouble to get adjusted and finally it needed to be pushed further into the burner and angled a little bit to get the burner to light properly. I wonder though, should my oven burner only have holes along the front and sides and not along the back? It looks as though they were never drilled-out by the factory. Also, this burner sounds like a tinkling bell when you shake it, but nothing comes out.
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Post by Chuckie on Nov 4, 2009 21:33:14 GMT -5
Piper: When I checked things out under the carport b4 putting our 1947 Model B in the kitchen, the oven would come up to 400 degrees per TWO thermostats I put in the oven when it was SET on 400 dgs, then shut down to the by-pass; hallelujah! We had nieces/nephews out for home-made pizza on Halloween, and I didn't think it was running QUITE up to snuff. Tonight I fired it up to 400; after 20 minutes, was 350 and still on FULL flame; at 30 minutes, was 350 and STILL at full flame--per said thermostats inside oven. How the heck long does it take one of these to heat up??!!!! When I did the "test drive" under the carport, I wasn't closely monitoring it time-wise. My oven burner flame is right at 3/4" tall as recommended; I can send a pic for the experts to analyze if necessary. The oven door/surrounds are cool as a cucumber, so I suspect the rockwool is fine, although I didn't tear it down THAT far. Our B was sans a skirt when purchased; is THAT an issue?... Also, in the book, it talks about removing the "set screw on the underneath side of the oven dial"; mine don't HAVE such an animal! Could maybe the valve have been replaced at a later date? I'm thinking that now it's suddenly like 50 degrees off, but I don't know W-H-Y or how to calibrate it via the manual. Lastly, the knob rubs against the front of the stove, and won't turn down below 250. I didn't think too much of that, since the oven won't come on unless the oven gas handle is turned ON. I had loosened the screw that holds said valve to the frame and tried to coax/point it more towards the broiler side so it would turn better, to no avail. And, again, there IS NO SET SCREW on the bottom of the oven thermostat knob on ours. Any expert advice as to what my problem(s) might be (other than MENTAL!)
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Post by dugbug on Nov 5, 2009 8:23:42 GMT -5
Chuckie,
I don't have a B as you know, but my dad does. I'll check his thermostat dial to see where the set screw is.
In the meantime...
For the rubbing dial, try loosening the screw that holds the thermostat to the frame and then adjusting its position so that the dial will be more parallel with the front panel. Also try pulling the thermostat out towards you a smidgeon if possible. Once you have it where you want, tighten the screw.
This will require removing the front right burner, drip ring, etc to access this screw.
If that doesn't work, maybe the front panel need to be tightened a little more inward. Try the two nuts on either side of the thermostat. Maybe that will pull in the front panel enough to stop the rubbing.
It's possible that the missing skirt may be causing the temperature problems in the oven. Maybe you could build something similar to put in its place, or see if Don or anyone has one for sale. I do know that the skirts from the Bs and Cs are different.
I'll report back when I look at my dad's B later today, since I have to go out that way later.
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