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Post by nana on Mar 24, 2015 19:03:27 GMT -5
I'm turning to you, my Chambers friends, to help me with this problem. You all seem like a handy bunch who also will understand my fondness for the old but still useful things in life. I had thought to replace my old kitchen floor before I get my eventual Chambers, even though in my opinion it still has a few good years left in it, because some of the tiles in the corner are starting to curl up and crack,(probably because my cat Massie drinks by dipping her paws in the water and getting it all over). Once the stove was installed I didn't want to have to move it again. Ever. Or at least, not for a long, long time. What I have is old 12inch square real linoleum tiles in a low key parquet type embossed brick pattern and color. Probably laid down in 1965 or so. The only real signs of wear are the pattern is worn kind of smooth in the high traffic areas, and the problem in the corner. I spent more time than I thought possible looking on the internet, trying to find a nice retro looking real linoleum pattern, only to find only two companies still make linoleum (Armstrong and Forbo(Marmoleum)) and they don't make retro patterns, at least not that I could find. I don't want vinyl. I realized that I HAVE a nice retro linoleum floor already, that I would keep if I could fix it. Does anyone know a way to fix this?
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Post by chipperhiker on Mar 24, 2015 21:02:30 GMT -5
I'd say that unless you have extra matching vintage tiles kicking around somewhere, you might be a bit out of luck on the repair front. Disguise might be an option, though. Say... removal of damaged tiles and replacement with something complementary in a pattern that looks like it was put there on purpose to be decorative, rather than as a repair. Not quite sure what that would look like, though, having brought it up!!!
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Post by nana on Mar 25, 2015 16:38:06 GMT -5
Hey, that's an idea...maybe I could take up those 6 or eight tiles in that area and put in ceramic tiles or something. Or maybe slate. Massie is a young cat and as long as she's around, water will be spilled. Slate is common and indigenous to our neck of the woods. In fact Granville, near us, is I believe the only place in the world where red slate is quarried. That might be a very close color match as well... Hmmmmmm...Thanks again, Chipperhiker--you are turning out to be like my own personal Shell Answer Man!
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Post by vaporvac on Mar 25, 2015 16:43:17 GMT -5
You could also try switching out some undamaged tiles from under cabinets or under the Chambers if you can get them out fairly easily. I'm doing that with some of my 100yr old kitchen tiles. Just a thought if you have to move anything around.
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Post by chipperhiker on Mar 25, 2015 19:56:35 GMT -5
Now, that is truly an awesome answer, Vaporvac!!!!
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Post by cinnabar on Mar 25, 2015 20:32:53 GMT -5
nana, The original floor may not be linoleum, but asbestos tile. It is hard to tell for sure from the photos. You can have the tiles tested by a testing lab, to determine for sure what their composition is. Matching squares may prove difficult if not impossible, not to mention removal could be a pain. My Hubby is a flooring sales rep for one of the afore mentioned companies( so this advice comes from a pro) He suggests going to: www.armstrong.com/commflooringna/products/linoart-granette-tile/_/N-1z140o8Z705/Ntt-lino+artThis is a link to the new Armstrong Lino Art Granette Tile line. This is a real linoleum tile, made in Germany. Not like the brick pattern you have, but it is real linoleum. He just got samples for them today so they are quite new. So for a new floor? I have ceramic tiles and they are not heated, if you go with slate get in-floor heat if you live in a cold climate. just my 2cents cinnabar
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Post by vaporvac on Mar 25, 2015 20:46:06 GMT -5
Very handsome, Cinnabar. I wondered the same thing about Nana's floor, but it's hard to tell without seeing it in person. I love linoleum flooring. One of my upstairs bedroom has the original "carpet", but it's a bit broken.So pretty and old-fashioned in a floral pattern. I love the old deco style, as well and the linoart could duplicate it well. My favourite flooring for a kitchen is cork by far. I have it in a couple of rooms including some that's 100 yrs old and it wears like steel and looks beautiful, besides being warm, sound absorbing and soft. Dishes just bounce on it.
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Post by nana on Mar 25, 2015 21:13:32 GMT -5
Thanks Cinnabar, for the link. I had toyed with the idea of doing a checkerboard pattern in some colors to match the backsplash by my sink, but I was afraid it might be too bold and busy for my smallish kitchen. But those are some nice colors...I also did not even consider that my floor could be asbestos, not linoleum!! I just assumed linoleum because they are too old to be vinyl. What kind of lab tests for that?
Also, Vaporvac, what kind of floor is corn?!?! Or did you mean cork? It would be warmer, that's an important consideration for me too, but how do you mop it? Is it coated with something?
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Post by vaporvac on Mar 25, 2015 22:08:05 GMT -5
I meant cork! I was eating corn chips when I was typing that. Jeez!. I really need to reread what I write at least not while I'm hungry. And yes, the cork is coated with a waterproof coating. I also apply some water-based poly after the install. It looks fabulous.
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Post by nana on Mar 30, 2015 19:37:10 GMT -5
Vaporvac, I'm wondering... what do cats think of a cork floor? Do they treat it like any other smooth floor, ie; ignore it? Or is it like an expensive persian rug--irresistible and destined for destruction? I am really interested in it. And to think a week ago it wasn't even on my radar!
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Post by vaporvac on Mar 30, 2015 23:53:19 GMT -5
My kitty used to sneak upstairs and do bad things when there was carpet, but she never touched the cork. She treated it just like tile or wood. The other great thing about cork is if it's a thick tile, one can sand and refinish it just like a regular wood floor. My current cork floor is a click-type and it's really nice as well.
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Post by ronruble on Apr 3, 2015 19:42:22 GMT -5
Home Depot or Lowes sells the asbestos test kit. Having it tested cost about $35 and it is a good idea to do it before starting.
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Post by nana on Apr 4, 2015 7:21:15 GMT -5
Thanks, Ronruble. I had asked my neighbor who used to live in the house and is the one who had the floor installed if she remembered what it was, but she couldn't think back that far. I was kind of leery of sending it to a lab. I know what lab tests cost for people! $35 is fair.
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Post by nana on Apr 30, 2015 21:07:52 GMT -5
Although I'm still waiting for the lab to send me back the results on my floor tiles (7-10 days must mean something a lot different to them than to me!), I'm pretty sure my old floor is asbestos, having spoken with a few people around here more knowledgable than me. Leaving it in place and installing something new over it seems to be the best option, and we have decided to go with the cork, Vaporvac--thank you so much for letting me know about it! We're getting the click lock, floating kind because the thicker tiles have to be glued down, and replacing a damaged plank would create trouble with the asbestos underneath. We absolutely fell in love with a pattern that looks like a contour map--just a swirly, natural corky look. Here's a picture of the sample tile on my old floor:
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Post by mach12 on Apr 30, 2015 21:50:39 GMT -5
I've put down a few click-lock floating floors (doing one right now in hickory) and I love them. That cork is really nice. Great choice!
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Post by vaporvac on Apr 30, 2015 22:15:03 GMT -5
That is beautiful. Mine is a plain old-fashioned natural look in a mid-range colour. The click flooring is fairly easy to install. Make sure to get some extra in case they discontinue it. That's always fun. It comes prefinished, but I would stronly suggest three coats of water-based gloss. it becomes matte quickly but really helps the longevity. You can just scruff and go over it whenever you like. Mine is over 8yrs old and looks like new and as I mentioned I had a solarium where it was 100yrs old and perfect. I'd be glad to send you pics.
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Post by sporko on May 1, 2015 9:22:23 GMT -5
I'll just toss this out there as a generic warning on the click flooring. It doesn't apply to all of it... but be careful.
Look very carefully at the center core of your flooring before you purchase it. There are several flavors out there. "Name brands" will have a variance of the low end core to the high end core.
Some of them are chipped wood mixed with some sort of epoxy goo. These are fine. Some of them are just some sort of epoxy goo. These are fine. Some may actually have some sort of solid wood... Again: fine.
But.... some are a layered compressed paper. You'll have to look hard to realize that is what they are. (If you can find a box in the store with a ding'ed up corner, you can sort of see what it is.) If this is what you have: run away.
It will look awesome, but the core is seriously compromised by spills and moisture. It will take a few years, but you will end up with cupping at the seams -- probably everywhere, but definitely where there have been spills.
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Post by nana on May 1, 2015 15:06:26 GMT -5
Uh-oh. I looked at our lovely sample and it appears to be that paper in between. At least, I can stick my fingernail in to the edge and split it into layers....Rats. I will have to look for another brand and hope they have the same pattern. I'm glad for the heads up, though, Sporko. Spills in a kitchen are inevitable. I've learned to listen to the voice of experience about such things. When we redid our bathroom, I just had to have a tiled vanity top even though our contractor told me that unless I was absolutely obsessive about wiping up the water, it would eventually seep through the grout and cause damage. Well, I wasn't and it did. Lesson learned.
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Post by cinnabar on May 1, 2015 16:59:16 GMT -5
q-cork.com the website for q-cork line of flooring. You can see what they have there.
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Post by vaporvac on May 1, 2015 17:04:31 GMT -5
From where did you source yours, nana? Try ifloor. The variance in price for the click flooring is due to the fanciness of design, not the fabrication. I'd also stay away from dyed cork, at least that in colours. When you put an h2o poly over it be sure it's gloss becuz that lasts better and is harder. The gloss fades. Also be sure it is UV resistant as it will change colour other wise. That's not bad, just something to be aware of since cork is a natural product.
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Post by nana on May 1, 2015 20:53:23 GMT -5
I went to a local flooring place and the brand they had that I liked was US floors Natural Cork Earth and Classics. I will check out those sites you both mentioned and see if there is anyone around here that carries a better brand. It's never easy, is it? We live so far out in the boonies, I don't have a lot of choices usually!
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Post by vaporvac on May 1, 2015 22:13:22 GMT -5
The online places will usually send you free samples, if that's a help. You do need the underlay for the click floors. It's cheap. Lumber liquidators didn't stand by their product at all, so he went with ifloor and just put it on top of the LL glue-down tiles. He paid 2x for his kitchen, but did the rest of his house through ifloor. He loves the cork, as well because his dishes just bounce when he drops them!
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Post by nana on May 2, 2015 8:53:20 GMT -5
I'll just toss this out there as a generic warning on the click flooring. It doesn't apply to all of it... but be careful. Look very carefully at the center core of your flooring before you purchase it. There are several flavors out there. "Name brands" will have a variance of the low end core to the high end core. Some of them are chipped wood mixed with some sort of epoxy goo. These are fine. Some of them are just some sort of epoxy goo. These are fine. Some may actually have some sort of solid wood... Again: fine. But.... some are a layered compressed paper. You'll have to look hard to realize that is what they are. (If you can find a box in the store with a ding'ed up corner, you can sort of see what it is.) If this is what you have: run away. It will look awesome, but the core is seriously compromised by spills and moisture. It will take a few years, but you will end up with cupping at the seams -- probably everywhere, but definitely where there have been spills. Sporko, do you know the name of the type of center core that I should be looking for? I was trying to do research and the sites either don't mention what kind of core, or just call it a compressed fiber, or composite, or whatever. That seems too vague. It's not really clear what it is. I checked out both ifloor and q-cork, and one is impregnated with Microban, which includes triclosan, which I would like to avoid; and one says it has a nano particle finish which I would also like to avoid. For a supposedly green and natural product, there seems to be a lot of unnatural stuff to consider about it. Or I could be over thinking it, too....
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Post by sporko on May 2, 2015 12:46:17 GMT -5
I'll just toss this out there as a generic warning on the click flooring. It doesn't apply to all of it... but be careful. Look very carefully at the center core of your flooring before you purchase it. There are several flavors out there. "Name brands" will have a variance of the low end core to the high end core. Some of them are chipped wood mixed with some sort of epoxy goo. These are fine. Some of them are just some sort of epoxy goo. These are fine. Some may actually have some sort of solid wood... Again: fine. But.... some are a layered compressed paper. You'll have to look hard to realize that is what they are. (If you can find a box in the store with a ding'ed up corner, you can sort of see what it is.) If this is what you have: run away. It will look awesome, but the core is seriously compromised by spills and moisture. It will take a few years, but you will end up with cupping at the seams -- probably everywhere, but definitely where there have been spills. Sporko, do you know the name of the type of center core that I should be looking for? I was trying to do research and the sites either don't mention what kind of core, or just call it a compressed fiber, or composite, or whatever. That seems too vague. It's not really clear what it is. I checked out both ifloor and q-cork, and one is impregnated with Microban, which includes triclosan, which I would like to avoid; and one says it has a nano particle finish which I would also like to avoid. For a supposedly green and natural product, there seems to be a lot of unnatural stuff to consider about it. Or I could be over thinking it, too.... hrm... No, I don't know the names of the various cores. Our last house just had probably one of every type they ever made. We replaced floors over a 10+ year time frame and got a wide variety of "the material of the day". All the other floors stood the test of time. The paper-y core was one of the last installed and one of the first to start looking bad.
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Post by nana on May 3, 2015 15:02:18 GMT -5
Whew! In breaks between garden chores and cleaning out the chicken coop (Our motto: do it once a year whether it needs it or not), I've done a lot of research today on cork floors and I think I found a company whose product I like, Globus Cork. Some articles warned that a lot of companies kind of jumped on the "green" bandwagon, and while the cork itself is fine, the adhesives, cores, underlayments etc. may not be. This one seems to have gone out of its way to explain all of its products, including how many points each component contributes to a LEED certification in a building. I figure if they put such a boring chart on their website, it must be the truth, not just marketing. They also have a huge variety of sizes, textures and colors, including the kind I liked, in both click lock and glue down tile. I'm kind of rethinking and maybe I will go with glue down tile, because I would be putting a subfloor of 1/4" plywood between me and my old tiles anyway, and that way I could get a little fancy with a pattern...also they say it is fine to DIY, and will even give you phone in tech support if you have trouble.
Vaporvac, why the warning against dyed cork? I don't think I would want any too crazy colors, but I was considering some more subtle ones. But as I said, I like to listen to the voice of experience.
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Post by Chuckie on May 3, 2015 19:58:11 GMT -5
Whew! In breaks between garden chores and cleaning out the chicken coop (Our motto: do it once a year whether it needs it or not), I've done a lot of research today on cork floors and I think I found a company whose product I like, Globus Cork. . I posted this link many, MANY moons ago--after I found it on the " OLD" (original) forum. Anne Slater had an Imperial in her kitchen ( see photo 6), and the article reads that the kitchen has "its original stove and cork floor". Wonder what kind of cork THAT was?! nymag.com/realestate/vu/2006/16651/As an aside, I followed up on this article once--failed to LOG the link though--and the place sold for MORE than the asking price. BUT the new owners came in & butchered it up, took the stove out, modernized, it, etc. Broke my heart so badly that someone could DESTROY such a RICH history as that place had!!! Chuckie
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Post by nana on May 3, 2015 20:28:22 GMT -5
Whatever kind of cork it was, it was top of the line and super expensive, I'm sure! Do you suppose that lady actually cooked on her Imperial? Or probably had the servants do it. Wow, what a place!
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Post by vaporvac on May 3, 2015 22:57:04 GMT -5
Cork was a common flooring 100 years ago as that was about the age of my house that had it. Our downtown Public library also had it (NOw TILE since the remodel) and both the Dayton and Toledo Art museums have cork floor for all the reasons mentioned. These are the older thick tiles that are glued down. They can be refinished like wooden floors. The museum floors are cut in beautiful patterns that simulate inlay. They're so pretty. It was also popular in MCM houses and had a renaissance in England about 30yrs ago. Anyway, I just warned against the dyed cork because it can fade if not protected with a UV finish. Even a factory finish only lasts about 5yrs for the uv protection. That's one of the reasons I always put additional finish on top...that and it gives a continuous finish. The nano-particle finish was probably urethane with clay added which gives UV protection. Clay is a natural nano-particle that's used for this purpose. All the old cork I've ever seen was tile. I've installed that as well, but it was thick. My friend installed the Lumber liguidator tile which was average by today's standards, but thin compared to the old stuff. He did half his first floor and every corner cupped. LL said there's a small window between applying the glue and putting the cork down. It can't be too soon or too late so it was his fault. He did the rest of the house with new glue, being super careful about "the window" and the same thing happened. They wouldn't refund a dime. I couldn't believe they'd sell something so fiddly. I really like the tiles, but was disappointed. So, I'd be interested in what thickness Globus uses and if they are all cork and what procedure they suggest. I believe this happened because the tiles are thin. Globus sounds like they have all the angles covered. Thanks for the heads up!
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Post by vaporvac on May 3, 2015 22:57:52 GMT -5
P.S. I'm so sad to hear the story of the mansion. She fascinated me and I loved that kitchen.
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Post by Chuckie on May 4, 2015 18:31:39 GMT -5
P.S. I'm so sad to hear the story of the mansion. She fascinated me and I loved that kitchen. Re-found the link to pix, too many to post--but someone else feel free if they wish! It won't let me cut/paste or I would AT LEAST do a pic of the "new" kitchen: www.cityrealty.com/nyc/carnegie-hill/998-fifth-avenue/7736How sad--that place was a timeless, CLASSIC beauty--all you had to do was leave it the hell A-L-O-N-E!! CHEERS! Chuckie
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