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Post by unclescooby on Jan 15, 2010 16:00:15 GMT -5
Hi, I'm brand new to the site and to Chambers. I have restored several complete 1950's kitchens here in Indiana and when I saw a picture online of the copper Chambers ovens, I had to have one. I just bought the oven from Arkansas, which is apparently a C model in copper and then bought the matching copper wall oven and cooktop from Arizona. Now on this site, I see the 7961 imperial, which I had never seen before. I have to know...was it ever made in copper also? I'm about ten minutes from Shelbyville Indiana where I understand these were first made. If anyone knows of a 7961 for sale, I'd be interested in buying one. I'm sure we all would.
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Post by 58limited on Jan 15, 2010 18:35:53 GMT -5
I'm not an expert by any means, but I've only heard of, or seen, white Imperials. They come up on ebay every so often.
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Post by unclescooby on Jan 15, 2010 22:52:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the speedy reply. I've already been scouring Ebay, Craigslist, and everywhere else to find one. I'm ripping out my new kitchen next year to put in this vintage copper kitchen. It took a while to get my wife on board with that concept but Chambers owners that we know swear by them and I do most of the cooking anyway.
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Post by tux_sf on Jan 16, 2010 2:35:05 GMT -5
I 2nd 58limited-I don't believe that Imperials normally came in anything but white enamel. They were really meant for either commercial kitchens or LARGE home kitchens (think mansion with servants) & would probably been mostly used by professional cooks, so I don't think other colors would have been much wanted. After all, you probably wouldn't want to distract "the help" now, would you? ;-) Cooking was definitely not seen as "fun" like we often think of it today & kitchens in commercial & large home environments tended to be very utilitarian. As far as the look/style goes Imperials are really a large A model with a similar 1930's look, with the same kind of handles (these pull out once released, instead of sliding clockwise like the B, BZ & C models do), etc. I believe the burners are larger than a regular A though (6 burner heads instead of 4). I know they were first produced in the 1930's & I'm not sure how late they manufactured them, although I suspect production must have gone on at least through the 40's & they did not update the look to match the later models. At least that seems to be the case. There is very little advertising & other material that I've seen that includes them. Earlier on, in the 1920's they made other large models, but they look like the smaller ranges of that period. The website has some catalog material that shows some of these. I have 1 piece of advertising with Imperials in it & if I can figure out how to get it scanned-it is an oddly sized fold out piece-I will get it up on the website some day.
It sounds like you have quite a collection for your new kitchen already unclescooby. A copper C & copper built-ins too. Personally I've always liked the look of the first copper built-ins, in particular. They are kind of plain, but they do have nice lines. How is the copper finish on your stoves? The C model ranges in copper often seem to be a bit beat up & in need of serious restoration when I've seen them for sale. If you found one in good shape with original finish you are indeed a lucky man.
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Post by 58limited on Jan 16, 2010 8:56:07 GMT -5
I forgot to mention: Don Mattera at Mattera' Stove Works might have an Imperial for sale matterastoveworks.com/. He did awhile back. Also try Hugh at Hugh's place. He might not have one right now, but I have bought some Imperial-specific parts from him. He has had the drip pans reproduced out of cast iron - much thicker and heavier than the originals which are impossible to find. He also had the burner grates reproduced - I had to buy four. www.hughsplace.com/A restored Imperial is rather expensive, one on ebay brought $17,000 a few years ago I think. I am going to have all of my porcelain redone by Independence Porcelain Enamel ( www.ipe-porcelain.com/ ) and I decided to have the Imperial color changed to black with a chrome top and legs. I talked with Jeff at IPE and he said the old porcelain on the top can be sandblasted off to expose the cast iron. There is a local blaster that I've used in the past who does good work. My chrome shop quoted me about $325-$375 to plate the top depending on how much polishing has to be done to the iron before plating. Having the top chromed will also save the hassle of figuring out how to ship the huge heavy thing (64" X 26") to IPE. Tux_sf: Can you scan just the Imperial part of the advert that you have? I would really like to see it. I had to scan an oversize manual once, I went to Office Depot and they were able to scan it onto a CD in .pdf format.
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Post by 58limited on Jan 16, 2010 9:07:28 GMT -5
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Post by Chuckie on Jan 16, 2010 15:12:33 GMT -5
SWEET GEORGIA BROWN, I'm in LOVE!!!!!! Gotta buy an extra lottery ticket tonight, then off to Florida on Monday! ;D
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Post by tux_sf on Jan 16, 2010 19:45:14 GMT -5
***SNIP*** Tux_sf: Can you scan just the Imperial part of the advert that you have? I would really like to see it. I had to scan an oversize manual once, I went to Office Depot and they were able to scan it onto a CD in .pdf format. Now that you mention it, I might be able to get a full scan of the thing on one of the copiers at work. I see that they came in "white & ivory," so that sort of answers the color question. I did do sectional scans a while back, then never tried to really assemble them. However, that does mean I can show you the Imperial in there, so here you go:
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Post by 58limited on Jan 16, 2010 20:05:44 GMT -5
Thanks a bunch - that is my Imperial model in the picture. I wonder what the other models are? I know of the 6 burner two T-well model, and the five burner one T-well without storage service door model (is that correct, or is there no room for a T-well? I thought I had seen one once), but I wonder if the third additional model is the one without the T-well? Would that one change be a different model?
I also wonder if the cabinets on the top of the one in the link I posted above are custom made? I would post the pic, but I was warned that the person who listed that stove has a conniption fit if anybody reposts his image. It also looks like the panel with the burner controls and service door has been replaced: it looks white and the rest of the stove looks cream.
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Post by anitainkc on Jan 16, 2010 20:44:33 GMT -5
Ahhh...that stove is a dream!!!
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Post by 58limited on Jan 28, 2010 19:31:30 GMT -5
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Post by marka on Jan 29, 2010 9:24:03 GMT -5
These stoves are the greatest! I'm looking for a house that I can put one in! One thing, and I've mentioned it before, they seem to have an extra gas valve. If you look at the one in Pittsburgh, 6 burner, broiler/griddle, 2 ovens, should have 9 valves, 2 T-stats. It has 10. What am I missing?
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Post by Chuckie on Jan 29, 2010 11:25:52 GMT -5
58limited would be the one to ask, as he HAS one! How bout it, 58?
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Post by 58limited on Jan 29, 2010 22:43:57 GMT -5
Mine has 9 burner /oven valves and three thermostats: 5 burner valves, one T-well valve, two oven valves with two separate thermostats, and one griddle valve with a separate thermostat. My arrangement is different than the Pittsburgh one - I have a service door so all of the valves and thermostats are located in the center above the service door, except for the griddle thermostat which is located below the griddle.
I'm guessing the extra valve on the Pittsburgh one is a griddle thermostat. Don Mattera has (or had) one of these, maybe he can confirm this.
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Post by marka on Jan 30, 2010 9:58:52 GMT -5
OK, an extra T-stat, that makes sense, form the pics I've seen the look just like the handles for the burners. Thanks!
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Post by 58limited on Jan 31, 2010 9:56:23 GMT -5
On mine, the thermostats all have a dial so they look different than the other handles. I noticed on the one for sale in Pittsburgh that there doesn't seem to be a third dial for the griddle/broiler, just the two for the ovens. My griddle/broiler thermostat is marked LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH.
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Post by marka on Jan 31, 2010 10:16:00 GMT -5
I wonder if it's a 'slide' type instead of a dial?
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Post by chamberslover on Feb 25, 2010 12:16:26 GMT -5
Does the Imperials compete with thenew DAC ranges and other professional model ranges that have all the sophisticated high-ouput BTU's and simmering features? I could care less about all the other bells and whistles the newer stainless steel ranges have. I am only concerned about the burners performance and how much longer it will take to prepare a meal due to BTU output coupled with burner design and even heating and whether the newer electric convection ovens cook as well or better than the Chambers Imperial ovens will.
Hands down I love the vintage looks and size of the Imperial. So which cooks faster and is it really that much faster on the 14,000 - 18,000 BTU's of the brand new stainless high end ranges versus the 11,000 BTU's of the Imperial? And can the electric convection ovens compete with the efficiency of the Chambers Imperial gas ovens?
I have a BIG DECISION to make? Do I restore and cook on the 41 series Imperial or do I purchase a brand new DACOR 48" stainless steel range with electric convection ovens. Also, I cook in 12 - 32 quart pots and large 14" to 16" skillets. The burners on the Chambers Imperial are 11" in diameter and the DACOR burners are much larger, like 14 x 16 inches in diameter and continuous so you can easily slide pots from one to the other. However, the Chambers have the patented daisy burner so will this daisy design make up for the diameter of size that it lacks compared to the larger size of the Dacor grates in its cooking performance?
Like I mentioned, the bells and whistles of the newer stainless models I could care less about. Just more electronic stuff to break. The electronics on my friends new Viking range has given her fits and are constantly being repaired. I am interested in cooking performance. Do I really need 18,000 BTU's to sear meat and cook in a wok or can I achieve this with 11,000 instead of 18,000 BTU's? Are all these high powered burners overkill or not?
I am presently cooking on a 25 year old Thermador Professional Cooktop with 6 enameled cast iron continuous burners each putting out 14,000 BTU's. I haven't felt the need for a more powerful BTU output but if anyone knows why this isn't so, please inform me. If I drop down to a Chambers daisy burner at 11,000 BTU's, will this be a significant difference in what I am currently used to? If so, then I migh regret going with the Chambers Imperial over the newer stainless steel Dacor range. I so love the vintage looks of the Chambers Imperial but the cooking performance of th burners is far more important.
Lots to think about and weigh in pros and cons. I also LOVE the griddle/broiler. No broiler ever broiled as wonderful as the Chambers in my opinion. My mother-in-law had the C series. I also LOVED her Chambers Thermowell. There is no new range on the market with a Thermowell and I don't think their broilers can compete with the Chambers even though the Chambers broiler as are the ovens, smaller in size.
If the burners on the Chambers can come real close to competeing with what I am currently cooking on now, I think I am going to go with restoring the Chambers Imperial. I just don't want to go through with this, and it is going to cost more than the new Dacor, and not be satisfied after it is all said and done. I need to be as happy with the performance of these burners as much as I will be happy with the vintage look.
If anyone can shed light on this that has experience cooking on an Imperial 41C series as well as cooking on a high end newer stainless steel model with those powerful BTU output burners, please share your thoughts and knowledge with me in helping me make the very important decision. Your input will be very much appreciated. This decision is a very important and BIG one for me.
Thanks, Chamberslover
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Post by Chuckie on Feb 25, 2010 16:04:04 GMT -5
We just moved a two-year old GE gas range out on the back porch after I got our Isabelle (1947 Model B) restored in September '09. I do NOT notice any difference between the "high heat" burners on our old stove and the daisy burners on the Chambers--but I don't know off the top of my head what the BTU ratings were on the GE. Also, on the GE, you could turn the burner alllllllllll the way down to next to nothing. We can do the same thing with our Chambers, if you turn them down reallllllllly slow-like. Also, the Chambers oven and broiler have 21,000 BTU burners; I don't know if many modern ovens put out THAT kind of heat!
On the Imperial--in the pictures I have seen of them--not all of them had a thermowell, so if you're after a thermowell, that's something else to keep in mind.
I have cooked a 20# turkey in our Lisk in the oven--and other folks on here have done a 25 pounder. Also, I have done scalloped potatoes in a 9" x 13" casserole, and then finished browning them in said-sized casserole under the broiler, as it WILL fit in there, no prob. I can't for the life of me think of a reason I'd NEED a bigger oven or broiler! And again, we're talking 21,000 BTU's on each!
We had an ice storm here last year, and lost power. We couldn't run the GE oven w/o power, whereas the Chambers could care less! Also, my sister has a similar GE range four or five years older than ours, and the electronics are starting to fail on it already.
I'll wouldn't trade my plain 63 year old gal from Shelbyville for ANY of the Vikings, DACs, or other 'glamor' stoves who's value decreases the minute they go out the store door!
VIVA LA ISABELLE! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by 58limited on Feb 25, 2010 19:06:57 GMT -5
Chamberslover,
Out of curiosity, where did you come up with the BTU rating for the Imperial burners? I've searched a little bit but haven't run across that info.
Depending on which Imperial model you have, some have a small and large oven, or two large ovens. These ovens can pretty much handle anything you need them too.
Can you post a picture of your Imperial?
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Post by marka on Feb 26, 2010 13:54:57 GMT -5
I've never seen an Imperial but I can tell you that cooking on a 91C is a dream. I will never go back to a 'new' stove again. Everyone that has seen my stove wants one, even the chef down the street! He heard that I had one and came down to see it, he was very impressed!
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Post by wannaredun on Feb 26, 2010 21:30:28 GMT -5
I don't see why you couldn't use a higher BTU orifice on a few of the burners. I've been planning to turn one of my burners into a wok burner for a long time, but haven't because it works fine for my purposes as is. I get a nice hot wok (albeit with slower recovery than on a high BTU burner).
The one major issue for me re: Chambers vs. modern stoves is the simmer burner. I like to do some very low heat applications and the lowest low flame on the daisy burners is too high, plus the burners love to go out on low heat. I already use thick-bottomed pots and will probably try again to resolve this with an extra Thermowell grate over the burner. Or, honestly, just use a hotplate when low-even heat is required; I cooked on one for a year while waiting for this stove, and working with those limitations made me a much better cook.
I don't run into any issues using large stockpots on the daisy burners. With a large skillet, you may get some uneveness (significantly cooler at the edges), but I use that as a feature, like the varying heat zones on a commercial griddle.
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Post by Chuckie on Feb 27, 2010 13:12:27 GMT -5
We had a simmer burner on our old GE. I DID like that, but it TOO, would blow out quite a lot if drafts hit it. And there ISN'T a standing pilot on the new stoves to relight it. I can turn our Isabelle down to just as low as the simmer on the old GE with my "L" front burner. The knob turns VERY easily on that one, and I can get it to where you can JUST barely see the blue flame in the holes.
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Post by 29ronjon on Mar 6, 2010 20:19:09 GMT -5
Just got a deal on my fabulous Model D. Can't wait to get it apart and put back together
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Post by gluby on Mar 19, 2010 22:09:48 GMT -5
Well I would like to say hi,new member here,what a great site anyway I am the proud owner of two 61C stoves,one yellow and the other white. I won the yellow last week on ebay,while bidding was still on a white 61C came up locally on craigslist,so I bought it.The white is very dirty,but in great condition,I picked up the yellow one today and she is pretty beat up. Anyone ever try a two tone stove? or would that be sacrilegious We are in the process in restoring a 1774 home,we wanted to build the kitchen to look older ,the ceiling is exposed wood beams and just picked up a old farmsink,could not see putting a new stove in. I have been doing much research and decided the Chambers stove is for us,will have many questions to ask when we start with cleaning and installing,thanks
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Post by oldsalt on Mar 22, 2010 8:30:19 GMT -5
Ronjon and Gluby, Welcome to the madness! We're glad to have new folks around and look forward to journeying in cooking with you. Two-tone sounds interesting...
David
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Post by chipperhiker on Mar 22, 2010 11:19:32 GMT -5
Welcome to the madness, both of you!
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Post by wannaredun on Apr 2, 2010 0:07:29 GMT -5
Post photos!
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Post by rle34 on Sept 9, 2010 13:48:10 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me about my Chambers? SN 15BZ4 model 63175. Folks got it sometime in early 50's? I would like to have the top re-chromed. Any suggestions? Ray
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Post by Chuckie on Sept 9, 2010 14:58:37 GMT -5
There's a gal that goes by "Violet65" on the 'other' Chamber site who got hers re-chromed in the Salt Lake City area for around $200--best price I've heard of!!
As to age, you'd have to ask the "pro's" on here, I haven't a CLUE!
Chuckie
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